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trig42
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  #1119491 1-Sep-2014 12:13
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Sad news at that.

How awful.

DravidDavid
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  #1119493 1-Sep-2014 12:15
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networkn: THIS is news: 

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/10446236/Two-dead-in-Work-and-Income-shooting

That is crazy!

Can't say I didn't see it coming.  I'm probably going on a watch list for this, but the Three Kings branch is probably next.  Some violent stuff has gone down in and around that one!

 
 
 
 


dickytim
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  #1119504 1-Sep-2014 12:20
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mattwnz: I think some of the oppositions chances of getting in, are based on keeping this dirty politics thing going. So expect to see opposition parties trying to keep it going. The problem with policies that opposition parties are releasing , is that they lack any detail, and in fact they even say they won't nut out the details until they are in power. I don't  see how you can vote for a party based on that. The capital gains tax is a case in point, there are no real details about it, and NZ does already have a capital gains tax, for the reasons why the opposition parties say it is needed. The problem is policing it which is costly.


I have to laugh at Labour's TV add, " I want to work less", "I want more free time"

We all want that but how does it all get paid for? Tax those filthy scum bags on better that $100,00o a year? I really want to see some actual policies, not just trying to engage the lowest common denominator.

The whole dirty politics thing is really pissing me off. We need to see some actual policies, but I don't think we will this election.

Oh and bye-bye Judith. I won't be shedding a tear for you.

Bung
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  #1119583 1-Sep-2014 13:31
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dickytim:
I have to laugh at Labour's TV add, " I want to work less", "I want more free time"

We all want that but how does it all get paid for? Tax those filthy scum bags on better that $100,00o a year? I really want to see some actual policies, not just trying to engage the lowest common denominator.



Before lifting taxes get the IRD collecting more of the existing taxes rather than writing it off.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9037885/Welfare-debt-tackled-more-than-tax-fraud

MikeB4
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  #1119586 1-Sep-2014 13:49
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networkn: THIS is news: 

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/10446236/Two-dead-in-Work-and-Income-shooting


My thoughts are with the staff and families. I am absolutely shocked and deeply saddened. Kia Kaha my friends.

dafman
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  #1119610 1-Sep-2014 14:15
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We all want that but how does it all get paid for? Tax those filthy scum bags on better that $100,00o a year? I really want to see some actual policies, not just trying to engage the lowest common denominator.

The whole dirty politics thing is really pissing me off. We need to see some actual policies, but I don't think we will this election.


Err, you don't have to look far ... go to www.labour.org.nz, click on the download link, and it's all there - including their budget on how they propose to pay for it.

I'm picking National has  similar. Alternatively, you could by-pass their official website and go straight to whaleoil for an update on National's vision for our future? (-;


gzt

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  #1119615 1-Sep-2014 14:21
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networkn: THIS is news:  http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/10446236/Two-dead-in-Work-and-Income-shooting

trig42: Sad news at that. How awful.

DravidDavid: That is crazy! Can't say I didn't see it coming.  I'm probably going on a watch list for this, but the Three Kings branch is probably next.  Some violent stuff has gone down in and around that one!

KiwiNZ: My thoughts are with the staff and families. I am absolutely shocked and deeply saddened. Kia Kaha my friends.

Y'all. It's news. It does not belong in this topic and there is obvious potential for controversy raised above. Start another topic please.

 
 
 
 


nigelj
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  #1119651 1-Sep-2014 15:13
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mattwnz: In a way I am surprised that elections are able to be allowed to be rerailed like this.  No one is talking about policies, which is what opposition parties want.


I think you'll find that Labour/Greens/NZ First/others are talking a lot of politics/policies, it's just they are also getting drowned out by all these scandals.

For instance: Labour released a transport plan, that was drowned out by Greens beating them to the punch on a few topics, and the press focusing on the whole Dirty Politics/etc stuff.

networkn
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  #1119718 1-Sep-2014 16:32
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BarTender:
networkn: THIS is news: 

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/10446236/Two-dead-in-Work-and-Income-shooting


As is this: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11317385



*Maybe* when it's verified. 

You and I clearly have a disconnect over what we consider real news to be though.


BarTender
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  #1119721 1-Sep-2014 16:37
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networkn:
BarTender:
networkn: THIS is news: 

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/10446236/Two-dead-in-Work-and-Income-shooting


As is this: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11317385


*Maybe* when it's verified. 
You and I clearly have a disconnect over what we consider real news to be though.


I agree the terrible events that occurred at WINZ is news. I wish you could stay on topic and give me the courtesy to consider that perhaps the above link refers to the actual topic of Collins resigning and not trying to divert the whole thread to something else?

It leads to the whole root of all the rot.

I refer back to the speed at which Collins denied that she was talking with Winston Peters (it was mere hours) vs the denial of any of the allegations with her working with Slater (which she so far hasn't denied).

Doesn't the lack of denial speak volumes? Start at about 4Mins 40... Since it does with me.




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networkn
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  #1119735 1-Sep-2014 16:47
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BarTender:
networkn:
BarTender:
networkn: THIS is news: 

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/10446236/Two-dead-in-Work-and-Income-shooting


As is this: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11317385


*Maybe* when it's verified. 
You and I clearly have a disconnect over what we consider real news to be though.


I agree the terrible events that occurred at WINZ is news. I wish you could stay on topic and give me the courtesy to consider that perhaps the above link refers to the actual topic of Collins resigning and not trying to divert the whole thread to something else?

It leads to the whole root of all the rot.

I refer back to the speed at which Collins denied that she was talking with Winston Peters (it was mere hours) vs the denial of any of the allegations with her working with Slater (which she so far hasn't denied).

Doesn't the lack of denial speak volumes? Start at about 4Mins 40... Since it does with me.


Yes you have mentioned multiple times that you consider a lack of a denial, to be guilt. Myself and a few others have repeatedly said we consider actual proof, to be proof, and that a lack of a denial is nothing more than that.

At the end of the day she might be guilty, and due process will confirm that or clear her, but even if it finds her guilty, there are just so many more important things going on in the grand scheme of things that should be higher priority and deserve more attention. You disagree. I understand.

Not really sure what else can be said ?


turnin
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  #1119772 1-Sep-2014 17:16
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It must be getting pretty hard for those that were in denial of the hargerbooks claims to maintain their stance.
So far this "be gone by tomorrow" "left wing conspiracy theory" seems to have been right all along.
I speak somewhat emotively as my parents lost a great deal of money in the Hanover finance debacle, enough, I can tell you for a fact, to make a grown man cry.
Politics can be better than this, a broken system can be fixed and this is what needs to happen.

Clearly there needs to be much more transparency in government, not just in terms of statistical data but in terms of communications.
I do hope this whole affair produces a shift in thinking so that governments are not so divisive, fighting and smearing each other and contracting the likes of Crosby Textor who appear to have known full well that this sort of behaviour reduces voter turn out.

At the end of the day most New Zealanders want the same things, wealth & prosperity, recognition, freedom and safe place to exist whilst living.
Most New Zealanders couldn't give a rats about snapper limits but they do care that there is no honesty, they care that tobacco and anti global warming lobbyists are very influential in the running of our democracy and they care enough to fix it.
so being a tech forum, I wonder if it is worth discussing how to fix a broken system.


BarTender
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  #1119773 1-Sep-2014 17:17
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networkn: Yes you have mentioned multiple times that you consider a lack of a denial, to be guilt. Myself and a few others have repeatedly said we consider actual proof, to be proof, and that a lack of a denial is nothing more than that.

At the end of the day she might be guilty, and due process will confirm that or clear her, but even if it finds her guilty, there are just so many more important things going on in the grand scheme of things that should be higher priority and deserve more attention. You disagree. I understand.

Not really sure what else can be said ?



My majn point is this thread is talking about Judith Collins resigning. You preferred to divert and somehow say that the horrific news that occurred in WINZ is somehow related to this thread. Whi j it isn't. Feel free to start up a new thread about it and I would most probably agree with you it's terrible news.



I'm trying to stay on topic and include recent information that is on topic. Plus continue to say that Judith Collins has a very good history of denial when it comes most other things such as Winson Peters.... yet not denied anything has has admitted she passed on the employees title to Slater who then did receive death threats. This was while she was saying tough words on cyber bullying.

Please do listen to the interview. It's quite enlightening.

I do agree in the rule of law and innocent before guilty. But one would assume that you would claim innocence to assert that.




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networkn
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  #1119779 1-Sep-2014 17:26
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BarTender:
networkn: Yes you have mentioned multiple times that you consider a lack of a denial, to be guilt. Myself and a few others have repeatedly said we consider actual proof, to be proof, and that a lack of a denial is nothing more than that.

At the end of the day she might be guilty, and due process will confirm that or clear her, but even if it finds her guilty, there are just so many more important things going on in the grand scheme of things that should be higher priority and deserve more attention. You disagree. I understand.

Not really sure what else can be said ?



My majn point is this thread is talking about Judith Collins resigning. You preferred to divert and somehow say that the horrific news that occurred in WINZ is somehow related to this thread. Whi j it isn't. Feel free to start up a new thread about it and I would most probably agree with you it's terrible news.



I'm trying to stay on topic and include recent information that is on topic. Plus continue to say that Judith Collins has a very good history of denial when it comes most other things such as Winson Peters.... yet not denied anything has has admitted she passed on the employees title to Slater who then did receive death threats. This was while she was saying tough words on cyber bullying.

Please do listen to the interview. It's quite enlightening.

I do agree in the rule of law and innocent before guilty. But one would assume that you would claim innocence to assert that.


Actually I was NOT trying to change the topic, I was trying to point out that THIS topic and the political discussion around it, isn't really news compared to other stuff that is happening in NZ.

You don't need to claim innocence in NZ, it's a presumption, therefore in the absence of a claim, you are presumed innocent, something I don't see you willing to provide National or Collins. 

FYI I am not claiming her innocence with my comments either.

The bottom line for me, is that even if every allegation is true, it doesn't warrant unseating a government over. I believe I would feel the same way regardless of who was in power.

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