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  Reply # 1119828 1-Sep-2014 18:45
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KiwiNZ: I am not going to get into a debate over this with you here, it would be disrespectful to those lost and folks dear to me and all of the MSD family.


Agreed and also as it is disrespectful to blame others when one doesn't have facts.




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  Reply # 1119831 1-Sep-2014 18:47
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Don't know what you mean by blaming others.




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  Reply # 1119834 1-Sep-2014 18:51
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KiwiNZ: 

The change to open plan offices when Hickton/Rankin were CEO's was a mistake.



good point I should have said inference, I




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  Reply # 1119839 1-Sep-2014 18:56
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jeffnz:
KiwiNZ: 

The change to open plan offices when Hickton/Rankin were CEO's was a mistake.



good point I should have said inference, I


There was a major change in how the offices were designed, since then there has been a series of incidents, Orewa, Porirua and this one are three a many.

Visitors from sister organisations overseas were also shocked at how it is done here.




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The great divide is the lies from both sides.

 

 


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  Reply # 1119841 1-Sep-2014 19:00
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KiwiNZ:
jeffnz:
KiwiNZ: 

The change to open plan offices when Hickton/Rankin were CEO's was a mistake.



good point I should have said inference, I


There was a major change in how the offices were designed, since then there has been a series of incidents, Orewa, Porirua and this one are three a many.

Visitors from sister organisations overseas were also shocked at how it is done here.


so your comment was off topic then and nothing to do with the shooting




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  Reply # 1119851 1-Sep-2014 19:03
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It does, but feel free to believe what you will. At least I have the experience to comment. I will leave you to yourself.




Mike
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  Reply # 1120108 1-Sep-2014 22:59
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Likewise my thoughts and sympathies are with the victims and their families and friends, and the family of the perpetrator. This is a tragedy which will affect many people.

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  Reply # 1120111 1-Sep-2014 23:09
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KiwiNZ:
DarthKermit: Awful, just awful. I wonder if WINZ offices will eventually end up as secure as our court houses are now?

A murder in the Palmerston North district court in 1998 was one of the reasons courts are full of security now.


The change to open plan offices when Hickton/Rankin were CEO's was a mistake.

I know nothing about the nature of the change or the way the crime unfolded.

But it seems to me that nothing short of bullet proof glass, metal detectors, and other airport style extreme security measures would have prevented this.

I imagine there will be an enquiry/review of some kind to determine if this tragedy could have been prevented by any existing or new business process.

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  Reply # 1120113 1-Sep-2014 23:12
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BlueShift:
Inphinity: Not really sure what to discuss, it's terrible that this happened, a tragedy for the family & friends of the victims, and frightening I'm sure for all in the general vicinity. Hopefully the perpetrator is caught and punished appropriately.


It sounds like he'll be better off after being punished - warm dry cell, decent healthcare, 3 square meals a day.


Yes, my first thought was 'well, he won't be homeless for the next 20 years, will he?' when I heard him described as 'a homeless man' on the radio.





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  Reply # 1120166 2-Sep-2014 02:57
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This was a sad tragedy all round.

What is just as tragic is that it got to the stage the guy either felt he had nothing to loose, or was in a situation where it wasn't being listened too. A fimilar theme I've heard before with WINZ.

It was going to happen though. They've made dealing with them as impossible as possible, including people with illnesses. Some geniune people that need help do fall through the cracks and get treated like ther are criminals.

Whilst others need a good kick up the bum and others have nothing but great experiences with WINZ.

I'm cruious to know more about the background and events that lead up to the outcome of this incident though. It's easy to try blame the offender for everything that took place, and I'd imagine the Government will try and pull that string as much as possible than apply their own mantra - being more personally responsable and accountable for contributing factors that could have escalated the outcome.

I still think it was eventually going to happen somewhere around the country with the changes in the last years. Even in the UK they prepared for suicide rates to climb with those on the hardest end of the stick that's situations may have been overlooked in order to impliment general policy across a variety of different people with different circumstances.

Those hardest hit are usually the most vulnerable and I might add because a few take the system for a ride most are treated like criminals at WINZ. They have their charter with words of dignitiy and respect towards people but hey, it's WINZ, it's as close to as much stress possible without breaking someone in that place.

Only this time someone obviously broke.

All I'm saying, as tragic as this was, it was eventually going to happen. The system is far from perfect and that's just the way it is. But it means something somewhere along the line is got to give. It was extremely sad it gave in this event.


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  Reply # 1120167 2-Sep-2014 03:03
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The only thing I don't get, is why it took this for this guy to get a what, $90,000 per year roof over his head with food and good medical care?

All for what... a few bucks to get him off the street and more support for whatever his situation was to get him in to a better one?




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  Reply # 1120290 2-Sep-2014 10:09
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kiwirock: This was a sad tragedy all round.

What is just as tragic is that it got to the stage the guy either felt he had nothing to loose, or was in a situation where it wasn't being listened too. A fimilar theme I've heard before with WINZ.

It was going to happen though. They've made dealing with them as impossible as possible, including people with illnesses. Some geniune people that need help do fall through the cracks and get treated like ther are criminals.

Whilst others need a good kick up the bum and others have nothing but great experiences with WINZ.

I'm cruious to know more about the background and events that lead up to the outcome of this incident though. It's easy to try blame the offender for everything that took place, and I'd imagine the Government will try and pull that string as much as possible than apply their own mantra - being more personally responsable and accountable for contributing factors that could have escalated the outcome.

I still think it was eventually going to happen somewhere around the country with the changes in the last years. Even in the UK they prepared for suicide rates to climb with those on the hardest end of the stick that's situations may have been overlooked in order to impliment general policy across a variety of different people with different circumstances.

Those hardest hit are usually the most vulnerable and I might add because a few take the system for a ride most are treated like criminals at WINZ. They have their charter with words of dignitiy and respect towards people but hey, it's WINZ, it's as close to as much stress possible without breaking someone in that place.

Only this time someone obviously broke.

All I'm saying, as tragic as this was, it was eventually going to happen. The system is far from perfect and that's just the way it is. But it means something somewhere along the line is got to give. It was extremely sad it gave in this event.



once again we get to everyone elses fault except the offender, nothing justifies what was done and I fail to see how the government could have changed this but I do understand how some would like to see them take the blame.

From the newspaper article's prior to the shooting it seems he came home to die as he has some skin disease. 

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  Reply # 1120308 2-Sep-2014 10:28
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One person is at fault for the actions of yesterday. As for the circumstances leading to the tragedy there will be many reasons, some  failures and many systemic causes. 




Mike
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 Mac user, Windows curser, Chrome OS desired.

 

The great divide is the lies from both sides.

 

 


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  Reply # 1120309 2-Sep-2014 10:33
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http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11317657

"He had been offered a lot of assistance in a lot of different ways that he had turned down. He had been offered accommodation and things but he was pretty fixated on one particular house that was never going to go to him because it was marked for a family."

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  Reply # 1120706 2-Sep-2014 18:31
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KiwiNZ: One person is at fault for the actions of yesterday. As for the circumstances leading to the tragedy there will be many reasons, some  failures and many systemic causes. 

I plus one'd that. The guy had a skin condition. Severe conditions are sometimes treated with steroids. A freind of mine was prescribed a particular one for a couple of weeks, same steroids are used for unrelated conditions. The personality changes were not severe, but were remarkable. The person was not warned of possible impacts of the prescription and actually made some fairly life changing moves with high impact financial and lifestyle consequences. Aggression is also a well known side effect for some instances. If this guy was long term on steroids then there may be an additional medical component to this horrible tragedy.

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