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794 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1123506 7-Sep-2014 09:28
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coffeebaron: Hmm, $1000 per week, $500 on rent, $100 on food, what does the other $400 go on?


Him,
power could cost $100 a week
Depends on how far they are from public transport and if they can use it to get to work and how far they are from work and if they are working multiple low wage jobs $200 a week on transportation is not hard, never mind car Rego and warrant, tyres, oil changes, mechanical repairs.

Then there is insurance
School fees
School uniforms
School books, school trips. Hell some school from intermediate up now insist the kids have a laptop
Doctors fees
Dental fees
Clothing

Now if they need to buy a fridge, washing machine, sofa and then of course they may have to use load sharks to buy these things.

Or perhaps if anyone has a funeral to attend, etc etc etc etc


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  Reply # 1123515 7-Sep-2014 09:42
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sir1963:
coffeebaron: Hmm, $1000 per week, $500 on rent, $100 on food, what does the other $400 go on?


Him,
power could cost $100 a week
Depends on how far they are from public transport and if they can use it to get to work and how far they are from work and if they are working multiple low wage jobs $200 a week on transportation is not hard, never mind car Rego and warrant, tyres, oil changes, mechanical repairs.

Then there is insurance
School fees
School uniforms
School books, school trips. Hell some school from intermediate up now insist the kids have a laptop
Doctors fees
Dental fees
Clothing

Now if they need to buy a fridge, washing machine, sofa and then of course they may have to use load sharks to buy these things.

Or perhaps if anyone has a funeral to attend, etc etc etc etc



generalising but

GE card payments for big screen TV PS4 IPhone 5
Payments to those mobile clothing stores for clothes
not to mention booze and cigarets

People who cant afford to feed their kids generally dont have insurance, or warrants and regos they also dont service their cars. dental is free while you are in school, doctor is free for under 5's its subsidised over that.

if you are spending 400 a month on power you have to wonder what the hell they are doing. growing weed in the basement? that's an awful lot of power.

I find it heart breaking that people in those situations put themselves before their kids, they will quiet happily buy things to satisfy themselves before buying their kids the necessities.

I would do anything for my son including giving up some of the luxuries my wife and i have

gzt

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  Reply # 1123580 7-Sep-2014 11:40
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In the winter just gone it seems fair to allow for three or four relatively high bills.

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1123582 7-Sep-2014 11:47
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The Living Wage movement has an aim of reducing “Poverty” in NZ. “Poverty” (defined by the Child Poverty lobbyists) is 60% of median household income after housing costs are removed.  

Median household income is around $58,000 per annum. Tax on that is $10,420 leaving a household income of $47,580 or $915 cash in the hand a week.

Take off average weekly household costs of $13,177 or $253 a week we are left with $662 a week. 60% of that is $397 net a week. So that is the apparent poverty line.  

However we then need to take into account Working For Families. Lets say a family has two kids. An annual household income of $58,000 will see another $124 in tax credits a week go back into the family bank account. That’s $64 Family Tax Credit and $60 In Work Tax Credit.  

So we now have a New Zealand family in “poverty” bringing in $521 net cash a week, (after household costs) or a family of four with $27.60 a day each ($18.60 net income + $9 a day household costs) to live on.   We are essentially saying that with $18.60 each a family cannot afford to put a bowl of porridge in front of the kids each day. I can go on- line and shop at count down and buy 1.5kgs of Rolled Oats for $4.00. That’s 30 servings at $0.13 a serving.  

An earlier poster asked where does the money go; Transportation – sure but the kids could walk to school to help. Health care – which is free for kids under six and subsidised for 6 – 17 year olds, free basic dental health care, subsided injury expenses, decile one schools get the greatest level of govt funding so “donations” are the lowest. And clothing which at somewhere like SaveMart you can pick up pretty much anything for less than $2 a piece.  

Contrast our “poverty” definition with that of the World Bank which sets it as an income of $1.50 per person a day.  

I suspect that what the Living Wage movement is simply about wealth redistribution from the wealthy to others. So, at the Warehouse wealth distribution is shifted from Shareholders to Workers. In Wellingotn City Council Area it is from NZ tax payers to Wellington residents

gzt

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  Reply # 1124938 9-Sep-2014 12:18
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minimoke

I'm not sure I understand. In the first para you have the poverty definition = 60% of the median average household income after housing costs are removed. In the third para and some below you talk about removing household costs. Are 'housing costs' and 'household costs' equivalent?

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  Reply # 1124999 9-Sep-2014 13:06
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My first advice to anyone who's struggling whilst living in Auckland would be to move. Most expensive housing in the country. Serious about wanting to provide a better life for the kids? Move. 



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  Reply # 1125011 9-Sep-2014 13:19
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gzt:
minimoke

I'm not sure I understand. In the first para you have the poverty definition = 60% of the median average household income after housing costs are removed. In the third para and some below you talk about removing household costs. Are 'housing costs' and 'household costs' equivalent?

Sorry I should be clearer. I meant “housing” in both paragraphs.

According to Stats NZ “median Annual Household Income” for year ended June 2013 is $58,010.

I’ve misplaced my Housing cost source but Stats NZ have “Housing Costs” as an average weekly household expenditure of $209 a week for year ended June 2013. They also have average housing plus utility costs of $273.

Sure we are getting medians and averages but  hopefully you’ll get the gist of my post.

Edit - oops - found it. Table six Average Annual Housing Costs = $13,177 pa

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  Reply # 1125060 9-Sep-2014 14:10
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"Struggling".






Sometimes what you don't get is a blessing in disguise!

gzt

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  Reply # 1125065 9-Sep-2014 14:21
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No problem with averages, we just have to figure out what is being averaged ; ).

In this case I might hazard a guess the average housing cost includes: rent, mortgage, freehold (rates and insurance), etc. Likewise, utility cost average will be independent of family size or dwelling size.

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  Reply # 1125091 9-Sep-2014 14:49
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What I don't get is, minimum wage is going to go up at some stage, right?  Inflation means it is inevitable.

Shouldn't those fighting for a livable wage instead be fighting for a currency backed by something other than itself with actual value?  There is a much larger underlying problem here, but it does not seem to be on anybody's radar.  You do however see it overseas.  Various countries are placing themselves to return to the gold standard and separate from the collapsing dollar.

The bottom line is, over time the money will be worth less, the price of living will increase and the minimum wage will have to follow.  Otherwise, you WILL get people actually struggling to keep things together.





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  Reply # 1125094 9-Sep-2014 14:59
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DravidDavid: "Struggling".



this pushes the stupidity of this story WAY over the edge.




#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


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  Reply # 1125134 9-Sep-2014 15:56
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hio77:
DravidDavid: "Struggling".



this pushes the stupidity of this story WAY over the edge.


http://www.pinterest.com/pin/193021534001642308/

Gotta have dreams bro.

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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1125138 9-Sep-2014 16:04
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JimmyC: My first advice to anyone who's struggling whilst living in Auckland would be to move. Most expensive housing in the country. Serious about wanting to provide a better life for the kids? Move. 

While I generally agree, sometimes it isn't quite as simple. There might be reasons why staying put is actually easier than moving - family links (for a family, especially a young one, this can actually save a lot of money), costs of moving, job availability.

I don't know what the personal situation of this guy and his family really is, but I find it a bit irritating that some people seem to think working 43 hours a week isn't "hard work". Sure, there are people working 50, 60 hour weeks, but what kind of society do we want here? One where nobody has time to play with their kids? Come on.

The other thing I find a bit disheartening is the attitude that both parents in a young family should be working. In my opinion, a single person working a 40 hour a week job should be able to support a family with 2 young kids, with warm housing, healthy food, clean clothes, and a few small luxuries outside that.

Look at some of the social issues we have with children today - how many of these could be solved by simply having parents spend more time with their kids? Probably quite a few.

gzt: In the winter just gone it seems fair to allow for three or four relatively high bills.


Definitely. Especially if you can't afford a high quality house - e.g. with good insulation, modern efficient water heating and/or storage, modern/efficient heating etc. It gets worse when you add in things like older appliances that chew 2-3x more power than their modern equivalents, opting for e.g. cheaper incandescent lighting over CFLs for upfront cost reasons. It's a bit of a double whammy.

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1125154 9-Sep-2014 16:23
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hio77:
DravidDavid: "Struggling".



this pushes the stupidity of this story WAY over the edge.



And once over the edge, we commence a free-fall of incredulity.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10749903

I guess a $30,000.00 lump sum payment doesn't cure poverty either...  it just funds a couple of years of irresponsibility.  Then SNAFU.

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  Reply # 1125175 9-Sep-2014 16:55
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spronkey:
The other thing I find a bit disheartening is the attitude that both parents in a young family should be working. In my opinion, a single person working a 40 hour a week job should be able to support a family with 2 young kids, with warm housing, healthy food, clean clothes, and a few small luxuries outside that.


Our parents managed that OK in the 60's and 70's, something went wrong, somewhere.

Serviced a mortgage on an average house, not too far in the suburbs - Birkdale ( adjacent to Beachhaven), single car family, walked to school every day, had the occasional outing, though I don't recall going to the movies - plenty of trips to the beach though.
Never wanted for much. B&W TV.

Ahh, rose-tinted glasses, reality check in progress ..... embarassed






My thoughts are no longer my own and is probably representative of our media-controlled government


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