Moment of Truth?

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Reply # 1130200 16-Sep-2014 19:52

Rappelle:
KiwiNZ:
KrazyKid: For those who want an interesting theory on how the Southern Cross Cable was tapped.
Lots of smoke about this issue if you ignore the Kim Dotcom sideshow.
Nothing conclusive but I'd love to see proper enquiry.

Waste of time and money, the conspiracy lovers will ignore the result if didn't fit what they believe and most of the population have more important issues to worry about.

On the other hand, those (seemingly like yourself) will continue to ride Key's wagon, even if concrete evidence were to be presented.

Personally, I'd rate my digital privacy and security as an important issue, as should any individual using the internet, or any business who operates off the internet.

Why so quick to discredit and put aside any possible claims? It's like you don't want the truth (of any sort) to come out.

Edit: Grammar.

it is your opinion its the truth, why are you so quick to discredit others that disagree with you as "ride keys wagon"

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jeffnz

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Reply # 1130208 16-Sep-2014 20:03

Rappelle:
KiwiNZ: The truth I am interested in, nothing from Dotcom has come close to the truth.

I ride no ones wagon, I ride my own.

So do you yet realise that Dotcom is not even relevant to the important issues that have been raised? Couldn't give a toss about him, but there are some questions that need to be answered, and some changes that need to be made, and it's not happening. I truly couldn't care less that the 'Moment of Truth' was a flop in regards to KDC.. I'd like to hear the real story about the mass surveillance, and what's really going on with the TPPA deal.

well this thread is about his event "the moment of truth"and, as yet no actual proof has come out which is kind of remarkable given the documents these guys have in their possession so don't be so dismissive of those of us see the whole thing a political stunt that has backfired.

Take out of what they have said what you will and I agree, in part, that their should be further investigation in some of the allegations but make no mistake this is purely political

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MikeB4

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Reply # 1130213 16-Sep-2014 20:09

Rappelle:
KiwiNZ: The truth I am interested in, nothing from Dotcom has come close to the truth.

I ride no ones wagon, I ride my own.

So do you yet realise that Dotcom is not even relevant to the important issues that have been raised? Couldn't give a toss about him, but there are some questions that need to be answered, and some changes that need to be made, and it's not happening. I truly couldn't care less that the 'Moment of Truth' was a flop in regards to KDC.. I'd like to hear the real story about the mass surveillance, and what's really going on with the TPPA deal.

My question to you is, will you accept the "real story"?

Mike
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Geektastic

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Reply # 1130220 16-Sep-2014 20:23

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After watching that Horizon documentary posted earlier, I'm glad they are looking.

MikeB4

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Reply # 1130226 16-Sep-2014 20:35

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Geektastic: After watching that Horizon documentary posted earlier, I'm glad they are looking.

The intercepted terror plots uncovered in the US, UK, Australia etc has shown the value to life and limb that official investigation and alertness is.

Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

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testha

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Reply # 1130248 16-Sep-2014 21:06

KiwiNZ:
Geektastic: After watching that Horizon documentary posted earlier, I'm glad they are looking.

The intercepted terror plots uncovered in the US, UK, Australia etc has shown the value to life and limb that official investigation and alertness is.

Can you please show me the proof that the intercepted terror plots have saved any life?

turnin

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Reply # 1130253 16-Sep-2014 21:13

Actually the biggest threat to NZ is not terrorism , it's people that absolutely have no concern or measure of civil liberties or history and believe everything the media tells them. Granted this is political for Kim dotcom, but it sure as hell isn't for me .

Snowdon and Assange are beyond reproach in my book, I really don't see why they would throw their lives away for brief moments of internet fame, they are doing what they are doing so that the educated in society can do something about it.

This conversation is not about monitoring known terrorists, half the NSA targets are simply not terrorists and virtually all of the data collected is not related to terrorism.
The conversations I'm hearing, a lot of people have big issues with this, and rightly so.
I don't recall giving up my right to privacy, I don't recall my business becoming an open slather for governments. The encryption argument is mute, yes encrypt everything anyway but I think it is seriously misleading to suggest that the GCSB can not decrypt, which IS what key advised when questioned during the Intelligence and Security select committee hearing into the GCSB at Parliament in 2013.

Allowing the govt to keep records on every single facet of my life and business, index them and retrieve them willy nilly when ever they see fit or fortuitous is damaging to society.

Conveniently ignored today is the fact that the documents released today by Key have absolutely nothing to do with speargun
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/09/15/questions-new-zealand-mass-surveillance/

Privacy and the TPP aside the public have a right to debate such issues and have the information to do so, for our own law society to have to approach the UN is a very slippery slope.

Technofreak

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Reply # 1130254 16-Sep-2014 21:14

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Can anyone remind me what credible evidence was given last night that showed mass surveillance has been carried out on New Zealand citizens by New Zealand agencies?

What moment of truth was there? None that I could see. Snowden, Greenwald etc may have evidence and may be correct in what they say, they haven't come up with the goods in this case though, not at least so far. It's all been innuendo.

I don't have a lot of faith in politicians, but in this case I tend to think what John Key has said is correct. He has more to lose by being found out to be wrong than Snowden and Greenwald do.

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Geektastic

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Reply # 1130259 16-Sep-2014 21:19

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testha:
KiwiNZ:
Geektastic: After watching that Horizon documentary posted earlier, I'm glad they are looking.

The intercepted terror plots uncovered in the US, UK, Australia etc has shown the value to life and limb that official investigation and alertness is.

Can you please show me the proof that the intercepted terror plots have saved any life?

Don't worry. You'll soon have proof when they don't …

I almost lost friends who were in Deal on 22 Sep 89 when PIRA blew up the Royal Marines barracks. Proof enough that getting your panties in a wad because an algorithm might be scanning your pedestrian emails and knows you visit bighooters.com sometimes is no biggie. Better surveillance will undoubtedly have stopped similar things from happening.

Complaining about electronic surveillance is akin to complaining about security checks on passengers boarding aircraft.

If terrorists exploded a car bomb in Queen St I bet we would see a rapid cessation of whingeing!

MikeB4

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Reply # 1130261 16-Sep-2014 21:20

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testha:
KiwiNZ:
Geektastic: After watching that Horizon documentary posted earlier, I'm glad they are looking.

The intercepted terror plots uncovered in the US, UK, Australia etc has shown the value to life and limb that official investigation and alertness is.

Can you please show me the proof that the intercepted terror plots have saved any life?

Are you serious?

Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

Technofreak

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Reply # 1130262 16-Sep-2014 21:21

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testha:
KiwiNZ:
Geektastic: After watching that Horizon documentary posted earlier, I'm glad they are looking.

The intercepted terror plots uncovered in the US, UK, Australia etc has shown the value to life and limb that official investigation and alertness is.

Can you please show me the proof that the intercepted terror plots have saved any life?

That's hard to prove.

However what isn't hard to prove was the loss of life in the Sept 11 terrorist attacks. The various agencies had intelligence that this attack was to happen, these agencies didn't have their sh*t together and missed the boat. Since the I suspect there's been better co-operation and sharing of information, hence the increase in intercepted terrorist plots.

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MikeB4

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Reply # 1130263 16-Sep-2014 21:22

turnin: Actually the biggest threat to NZ is not terrorism , it's people that absolutely have no concern or measure of civil liberties or history and believe everything the media tells them. Granted this is political for Kim dotcom, but it sure as hell isn't for me .

Snowdon and Assange are beyond reproach in my book, I really don't see why they would throw their lives away for brief moments of internet fame, they are doing what they are doing so that the educated in society can do something about it.

This conversation is not about monitoring known terrorists, half the NSA targets are simply not terrorists and virtually all of the data collected is not related to terrorism.
The conversations I'm hearing, a lot of people have big issues with this, and rightly so.
I don't recall giving up my right to privacy, I don't recall my business becoming an open slather for governments. The encryption argument is mute, yes encrypt everything anyway but I think it is seriously misleading to suggest that the GCSB can not decrypt, which IS what key advised when questioned during the Intelligence and Security select committee hearing into the GCSB at Parliament in 2013.

Allowing the govt to keep records on every single facet of my life and business, index them and retrieve them willy nilly when ever they see fit or fortuitous is damaging to society.

Conveniently ignored today is the fact that the documents released today by Key have absolutely nothing to do with speargun
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/09/15/questions-new-zealand-mass-surveillance/

Privacy and the TPP aside the public have a right to debate such issues and have the information to do so, for our own law society to have to approach the UN is a very slippery slope.

Both have committed crimes and one has yet to face up to a sexual assault charge I guess that is ok then.

Mike
Retired IT Manager.
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

gzt

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Reply # 1130265 16-Sep-2014 21:28

Geektastic: At the end of the day, all countries spy. They all collect data on bad people.

More accurately as per the (prior to this moment of truth) Snowden documents the approach has evolved to collect data on everyone and decide who is bad later. A big part of the problem revealed by Snowden prior to all this is (a) massive data collection and (b) very few safeguards if any about how that is used.

testha

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Reply # 1130269 16-Sep-2014 21:33

Technofreak: Can anyone remind me what credible evidence was given last night that showed mass surveillance has been carried out on New Zealand citizens by New Zealand agencies?

What moment of truth was there? None that I could see. Snowden, Greenwald etc may have evidence and may be correct in what they say, they haven't come up with the goods in this case though, not at least so far. It's all been innuendo.

I don't have a lot of faith in politicians, but in this case I tend to think what John Key has said is correct. He has more to lose by being found out to be wrong than Snowden and Greenwald do.

If you want credible evidence why dont you ask for more transparency from your government? After all they are the ones who should know exactly what is going on.

marmel

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Reply # 1130270 16-Sep-2014 21:34

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testha:
KiwiNZ:
Geektastic: After watching that Horizon documentary posted earlier, I'm glad they are looking.

The intercepted terror plots uncovered in the US, UK, Australia etc has shown the value to life and limb that official investigation and alertness is.

Can you please show me the proof that the intercepted terror plots have saved any life?

You need to do a bit of research, even a few minutes on Google and you will find plenty of terror plots that have been thwarted due to intelligence work, mostly post 9/11 of course.

Unrelated to your comment but most kiwis are probably completely unaware of the risks we already have in NZ. If you think we don't already have individuals that pose some risk you are naive, look at the recent case of the chap that used to attend the mosque in Christchurch, moved to aussie and a few years later is on twitter with his young son who was holding up a severed head.

Some of the others who attended the mosque in Christchurch have spoken of their concern about the type of Islam this guy and others were getting into.

There are also persons in New Zealand who are actively supporting groups in the middle east using money transfers etc, I'm not going into further detail but trust me it's happening. ( now I sound a bit like Snowden :-))

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