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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1133094 21-Sep-2014 12:52
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macuser: I feel pretty bad for Hone, looks like what was perhaps a great thing for the Mana party to draw in some Pakeha votes, really turned out to be a disaster. Looks like Kiwis don't like overweight dudes who don't wear suits.


Hone dug himself into the hole he is in, The Mana party and more so Hone himself are the radical left wing party for Maori where as the internet party supporters are Mainly young Pakeha people who IMO have VERY different views from Mana and I think the people of his local electorate thought that also hence voting in Labour.


The person I do feel sorry for is Collin Craig, the 5th most popular party, Getting almost 6 times more votes that Act yet come out of it all with nothing.
Guess it shows money can't buy you everything!



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  Reply # 1133095 21-Sep-2014 12:54
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Our democracy at work.





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  Reply # 1133098 21-Sep-2014 13:03
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Kyanar: To reiterate: comments attacking specific candidates or parties breaches the Electoral Act, is illegal, and may result in you facing police action.


That is - without doubt - one of the most stupid laws I have ever come across.

It even resulted in no photos of things like party leaders casting their votes.





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  Reply # 1133099 21-Sep-2014 13:06
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BarTender:

Our democracy at work.


I think that

(a) yes it is - people are free not to vote, surely?

(b) it may be our education system at work if the lack of party votes stems from voters not understanding how to vote in MMP. We shall tacitly ignore how that may be interpreted to demonstrate that they are not bright enough to be allowed to vote if that is the case!!





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  Reply # 1133104 21-Sep-2014 13:23
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I am not surprised at all that National did so well in this election. It was pretty much a good old fashioned hiding. It basically provides that the opposition parties policies were too extremist with all the changes and new taxes. Basically proves they were totally out of touch, pretty much the same thing happened in the last election. The problem is that the media tries to make it about personalities rather than policies, but at least many voters saw past that. Also with the dirty politics thing, if the oppositions policies weren't out of touch, that should have been the death nail to national, but instead they ended up growing their share.

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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1133105 21-Sep-2014 13:26
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BarTender:

Our democracy at work.



relabel that "No Vote" column as "Don't Care" and you have it about right.

Interestingly nearly twice as many people "Don't care" as voted for Labour

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  Reply # 1133108 21-Sep-2014 13:32
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Andib:
macuser: I feel pretty bad for Hone, looks like what was perhaps a great thing for the Mana party to draw in some Pakeha votes, really turned out to be a disaster. Looks like Kiwis don't like overweight dudes who don't wear suits.


Hone dug himself into the hole he is in, The Mana party and more so Hone himself are the radical left wing party for Maori where as the internet party supporters are Mainly young Pakeha people who IMO have VERY different views from Mana and I think the people of his local electorate thought that also hence voting in Labour.


The person I do feel sorry for is Collin Craig, the 5th most popular party, Getting almost 6 times more votes that Act yet come out of it all with nothing.
Guess it shows money can't buy you everything!




Yes Hone is a big boy and knew what he got himself into. He's gt 3 years to reflect, but he will be back.  Another party piggy backing on your vote was always going to affect his vote. If the internet party was so strong, then they should have just gone it alone.

 

 

 

The conservative party is interesting. If National wanted them in, then they could have easily done a deal in one of the electorates, like they do for those other two parties. But perhaps national see their policies as too extreme, and perhaps too powerful if they got 4 %, they would have quite a few seats. Also perhaps too many bottom lines. It isn't great for our electoral system and NZ's democracy, when the 4th most popular party with 4% of NZers voting for them, doesn't even get a single seat. National however may need to court them in the next election because those other two parties they currently court are on a lifeline, and perhaps won't be there in the next election. Any vote for the conservatives in this election was basically a wasted vote, and as a result those votes got shared across all the other parties.

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  Reply # 1133110 21-Sep-2014 13:33
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Geektastic:
BarTender:

Our democracy at work.


I think that

(a) yes it is - people are free not to vote, surely?

(b) it may be our education system at work if the lack of party votes stems from voters not understanding how to vote in MMP. We shall tacitly ignore how that may be interpreted to demonstrate that they are not bright enough to be allowed to vote if that is the case!!


But isn't democracy supposed to be inclusive?

I think voter turnout will continue to decline and that overall is the greater shame of our country.





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  Reply # 1133112 21-Sep-2014 13:35
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Seakiwi:
BarTender:

Our democracy at work.



relabel that "No Vote" column as "Don't Care" and you have it about right.

Interestingly nearly twice as many people "Don't care" as voted for Labour


The scary thing is, that if the greens and NZ first had been stornger, and labour were able to form a government, we would have all these unpopular policies coming in, when only a 1/4 of NZ actually voted in the party that has those particular policies. That is one of the big flaws with MMP. 

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  Reply # 1133113 21-Sep-2014 13:37
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macuser: I feel pretty bad for Hone, looks like what was perhaps a great thing for the Mana party to draw in some Pakeha votes, really turned out to be a disaster. Looks like Kiwis don't like overweight dudes who don't wear suits.


I have a small amount of sympathy for Hone.  However he is big boy who's been around politics long enough that he should know the ropes.  

Really, how stupid was it to partner up with a party that really has nothing in common with your parties ideals and best interests.  The cannabis line of the internet party was a great case in point.  The internet party didn't really care about Maori problems/issues, they just wanted a vehicle into parliament.

Hone should have known better.  Thirty pieces of silver?

I think it's more like Kiwis don't like people treating them like morons when it comes to Kim Dot Com.  He really did misread how Kiwis would react to his style of politics.  I'm not sure size or lack of suits is the issue.




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  Reply # 1133114 21-Sep-2014 13:38
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BarTender:
Geektastic:
BarTender:

Our democracy at work.


I think that

(a) yes it is - people are free not to vote, surely?

(b) it may be our education system at work if the lack of party votes stems from voters not understanding how to vote in MMP. We shall tacitly ignore how that may be interpreted to demonstrate that they are not bright enough to be allowed to vote if that is the case!!


But isn't democracy supposed to be inclusive?

I think voter turnout will continue to decline and that overall is the greater shame of our country.


But wasn't voter turnout this year at 75% which is quite high, especially as the weather was terrible. This sounds a lot higher than in previous elections. I beleive the US voter turnout is int he 50-60% range.

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  Reply # 1133118 21-Sep-2014 13:52
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mattwnz: But wasn't voter turnout this year at 75% which is quite high, especially as the weather was terrible. This sounds a lot higher than in previous elections. I beleive the US voter turnout is int he 50-60% range.


See the previous page showing total population vs turnout was around 66% or so. So 91% were enrolled based on the 2013 census and of the 91% only 75% voted. http://www.elections.org.nz/research-statistics/enrolment-statistics-electorate

It's been on a downward direction for a while: http://www.idea.int/vt/countryview.cfm?CountryCode=NZ






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  Reply # 1133119 21-Sep-2014 13:54
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BarTender:
But isn't democracy supposed to be inclusive?


What makes you say it's not inclusive?  By your statement I take it you are implying some sort of exclusion has taken place. 

Of eligible voters that didn't vote how many were excluded from voting.  I'd suggest none. They exercised their right not to vote.

In my book once you elect not to vote you have also abdicated your right to complain about the outcome.

I know some will say "I don't like all of their policies".  Like almost everything in life there are compromises, you need to choose the best option even though it may not be your ideal option.  The other choice is to start your own party then you can vote for exactly what you want.

A bit like buying a car or house.  You very rarely find the exact things you're looking for but end up buying the one that ticks the most boxes, unless in the case of a house you have the time and money to build your dream house.

Another way of looking at it, is if you don't want a particular party in power, then you need to vote for the most acceptable option in order to help stop the other party being elected.




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  Reply # 1133120 21-Sep-2014 13:55
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BarTender:
Geektastic:
BarTender:

Our democracy at work.


I think that

(a) yes it is - people are free not to vote, surely?

(b) it may be our education system at work if the lack of party votes stems from voters not understanding how to vote in MMP. We shall tacitly ignore how that may be interpreted to demonstrate that they are not bright enough to be allowed to vote if that is the case!!


But isn't democracy supposed to be inclusive?

I think voter turnout will continue to decline and that overall is the greater shame of our country.


It is inclusive in that no one is excluded unless they exclude themselves!





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  Reply # 1133121 21-Sep-2014 14:00
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What is especially interesting is the fact that despite some apparently unpopular things such as asset sales, National did better than last time.





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