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  #1133323 21-Sep-2014 23:07
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turnin:
Hammerer:
Geektastic:
Hammerer:
Geektastic:

I still find it amazing that people do not know who to vote for.

I knew which side of the fence I was casting my vote on by the time I was 15 years old and have never wavered since.


What fence? It's difficult to discuss the issue without knowing what assumption(s) you are making.


Left or right. Fence in middle.


Many people don't look at it that way. I don't. Many don't classify things using one continuum. Many don't even use continuums or dichotomies.

So what appears to be a simple question for you is a multi-faceted issue for many others. I'd also suggest that even the left-right mode of analysis requires the acknowledgement that there's probably more than one fence. The centrism that appears to be the dominant characteristic of NZ politics is too important to ignore. Likewise, the failure of Act to beat the 5% threshold suggests that there is another fence somewhere near there too. And so on.


No they don't, it's a drastic and dangerous oversimplification to measure parties according to where they sit on the left right spectrum, it's a bit like taking a topic like Chemistry and suggesting it's all either alkaline or acidic. Much more to it than just one spectrum.


If you say so.

Personally I won't ever vote for anyone who wants to put my taxes up or come up with other ways of taking money I earn and giving it to other people. So far I have yet to come across a Left wing party that I was ideologically able to consider as anything but dangerous!





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  #1133335 22-Sep-2014 00:43
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Technofreak:
Dingbatt: The no votes are undecided voters as well as those that didn't bother didn't care. Both of my children decided not to vote because they didn't know who to vote for. I guided them as to how to go about voting but not who to vote for. In the end they didn't see the point in just making a random choice in the booth.
I completely disagree that people who didn't vote now have no right to complain about what happens from here on in. The clock is reset and starts now for the 2017 election. If they strongly agree or disagree with what happens next they will have the motivation to vote next time.

Might be more sobering for our politicians if there was a "none of the above" option on the ballot paper for both the party vote and the electorate vote.


If people cannot be bothered to educate themselves on the issues that are going to affect them or cannot be bothered to vote then they deserve what they get.  No use complaining this time around.

"None of the above" isn't an option in my book.  No matter what happens, there is going to be a government chosen from what's on offer.  You need to choose what you think is the best option.  Otherwise you are likely to end up with an even worse option.

Or as I have said before go and form your own party to promote exactly what you want.


The only party of relevance to my current situation, apparently didn't submit papers in time (Expat Party).  Every other party; their policies don't affect me one way or the other, as I am among many others in New Zealand's largest single electorate: Australia (seriously, look at the statistics... if it were an electorate, it would be larger than any NZ electorate with over half a million eligible New Zealand voters).  

 
 
 
 


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  #1133357 22-Sep-2014 07:12
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Kyanar: 

The only party of relevance to my current situation, apparently didn't submit papers in time (Expat Party).  


Why are they relevant to your situation, do you tend to f$%k up as well?

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  #1133387 22-Sep-2014 08:40
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kiwitrc:
Kyanar: 

The only party of relevance to my current situation, apparently didn't submit papers in time (Expat Party).  


Why are they relevant to your situation, do you tend to f$%k up as well?


No, I'm not in the country.  So do any of the current political party's policies affect me?  No.  Not one single one has even a passing campaign promise to advocate for New Zealanders' rights overseas.

But then again, we all tend to **** up.  So, I guess in that respect, that would be correct too.

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  #1133389 22-Sep-2014 08:51
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Kyanar:
kiwitrc:
Kyanar: 

The only party of relevance to my current situation, apparently didn't submit papers in time (Expat Party).  


Why are they relevant to your situation, do you tend to f$%k up as well?


No, I'm not in the country.  So do any of the current political party's policies affect me?  No.  Not one single one has even a passing campaign promise to advocate for New Zealanders' rights overseas.

But then again, we all tend to **** up.  So, I guess in that respect, that would be correct too.


I think Kiwi's should be worried about those of us who have decided to stay and resources should be put toward those people not those who have gone overseas. 

Plus it's so amazing everywhere else, why would you need any additional benefits?

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  #1134036 22-Sep-2014 19:55
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networkn:
Kyanar:
kiwitrc:
Kyanar: 

The only party of relevance to my current situation, apparently didn't submit papers in time (Expat Party).  


Why are they relevant to your situation, do you tend to f$%k up as well?


No, I'm not in the country.  So do any of the current political party's policies affect me?  No.  Not one single one has even a passing campaign promise to advocate for New Zealanders' rights overseas.

But then again, we all tend to **** up.  So, I guess in that respect, that would be correct too.


I think Kiwi's should be worried about those of us who have decided to stay and resources should be put toward those people not those who have gone overseas. 

Plus it's so amazing everywhere else, why would you need any additional benefits?


And yet as a New Zealander overseas, I'm still entitled to vote.  Why?  Because I'm a New Zealander.  Presumably I have a long term interest in seeing the country safeguarded for my return in the future (though in all fairness, I really don't see anything in the way of long term thought in the current political crop).

Where I am now, I cannot vote, or otherwise participate in the democratic process.  I have no say in my current residence's governance.  So why would I not want to elect a government at home that's willing to stand up for those in my position?

The belief that those who have left, most likely intending to return, should not be considered or be entitled to participate in the democratic process is short-sighted, arrogant and petty.

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  #1134140 22-Sep-2014 22:55
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Kyanar:
networkn:
Kyanar:
kiwitrc:
Kyanar: 

The only party of relevance to my current situation, apparently didn't submit papers in time (Expat Party).  


Why are they relevant to your situation, do you tend to f$%k up as well?


No, I'm not in the country.  So do any of the current political party's policies affect me?  No.  Not one single one has even a passing campaign promise to advocate for New Zealanders' rights overseas.

But then again, we all tend to **** up.  So, I guess in that respect, that would be correct too.


I think Kiwi's should be worried about those of us who have decided to stay and resources should be put toward those people not those who have gone overseas. 

Plus it's so amazing everywhere else, why would you need any additional benefits?


And yet as a New Zealander overseas, I'm still entitled to vote.  Why?  Because I'm a New Zealander.  Presumably I have a long term interest in seeing the country safeguarded for my return in the future (though in all fairness, I really don't see anything in the way of long term thought in the current political crop).

Where I am now, I cannot vote, or otherwise participate in the democratic process.  I have no say in my current residence's governance.  So why would I not want to elect a government at home that's willing to stand up for those in my position?

The belief that those who have left, most likely intending to return, should not be considered or be entitled to participate in the democratic process is short-sighted, arrogant and petty.


You ARE entitled to vote in NZ, though personally I think once you are gone more than 2 years that should be suspended. My opinion is that little or no resources or time should be spent worrying about those who are overseas, as there are plenty of issues within the country to worry about.

Not even sure what you mean by those in "your position"?

Voting should be reserved for those contributing to NZ, what are you contributing as a Ex Pat?


 
 
 
 


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  #1134158 22-Sep-2014 23:10
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networkn:
Kyanar:
networkn:
Kyanar:
kiwitrc:
Kyanar: 

The only party of relevance to my current situation, apparently didn't submit papers in time (Expat Party).  


Why are they relevant to your situation, do you tend to f$%k up as well?


No, I'm not in the country.  So do any of the current political party's policies affect me?  No.  Not one single one has even a passing campaign promise to advocate for New Zealanders' rights overseas.

But then again, we all tend to **** up.  So, I guess in that respect, that would be correct too.


I think Kiwi's should be worried about those of us who have decided to stay and resources should be put toward those people not those who have gone overseas. 

Plus it's so amazing everywhere else, why would you need any additional benefits?


And yet as a New Zealander overseas, I'm still entitled to vote.  Why?  Because I'm a New Zealander.  Presumably I have a long term interest in seeing the country safeguarded for my return in the future (though in all fairness, I really don't see anything in the way of long term thought in the current political crop).

Where I am now, I cannot vote, or otherwise participate in the democratic process.  I have no say in my current residence's governance.  So why would I not want to elect a government at home that's willing to stand up for those in my position?

The belief that those who have left, most likely intending to return, should not be considered or be entitled to participate in the democratic process is short-sighted, arrogant and petty.


You ARE entitled to vote in NZ, though personally I think once you are gone more than 2 years that should be suspended. My opinion is that little or no resources or time should be spent worrying about those who are overseas, as there are plenty of issues within the country to worry about.

Not even sure what you mean by those in "your position"?

Voting should be reserved for those contributing to NZ, what are you contributing as a Ex Pat?



Oddly, by way of comparison, UK ex pats can vote for up to 15 years after leaving if they want to. I presume it is a hangover from when many of my forebears were posted hither and thither to run the show.

I do not bother - I even let my British passport lapse as it was very expensive to renew from here.





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  #1134316 23-Sep-2014 09:38
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Kyanar: And yet as a New Zealander overseas, I'm still entitled to vote.  Why?  Because I'm a New Zealander.  Presumably I have a long term interest in seeing the country safeguarded for my return in the future (though in all fairness, I really don't see anything in the way of long term thought in the current political crop).

Where I am now, I cannot vote, or otherwise participate in the democratic process.  I have no say in my current residence's governance.  So why would I not want to elect a government at home that's willing to stand up for those in my position?

The belief that those who have left, most likely intending to return, should not be considered or be entitled to participate in the democratic process is short-sighted, arrogant and petty.


I'm not sure I can agree with all of this.  Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you're living in Australia.

I agree you have the right to vote in New Zealand elections as a New Zealander living overseas. However you chose not to vote. Saying you don't like what's on offer isn't a valid choice in my book, it's a cop out.

As I posted above, no matter what happens a government will be chosen from what's on offer.  As a voter you have the right to help shape the government and you do this by choosing the best option, whether or not you agree with all of their policies.  If you chose not to vote you have given up that right to shape the future of the country and by default are allowing others to take the country where they want to go.  

I don't see how the rules of where you now live are a concern of the New Zealand government.  We don't take kindly to overseas interference in our affairs, so the reverse applies in this case.  

I'm not saying I think it's right that you cannot vote where you are, just that's the rules there. You want to play/live in their backyard you have to abide by their rules.  In fairness though I do believe John Key has raised some of the issues faced by New Zealanders in Australia with their government, but to no avail.  

I do believe the governments first duty is to serve the people living and paying taxes in New Zealand.  Looking after New Zealanders who have decided to live and pay taxes in other parts of the world becomes secondary.






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