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mattwnz
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  #1167554 3-Nov-2014 12:42
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gundar: I've considered this before - selling my place myself. What I did to start was pop into Whitcoulls and pick up one of those self-help books - How to Sell Your Own Place - or similar title. After I read through the legal, moral and technical issues, I figured I'd just give to an agent to do and ask for a price that covers their fee. As has been said, nothing prevents you from going it alone and if you don't have any problems with your house that could come back at you later, if it's as good a deal as you say, the self sale should be just fine, but then, in that perfect world, the agent will see thhe potential and get you a better deal - they also want quick profitable sales.

The thing that always comes to my mind when people complain about agent's fees is the number of startups that have tried other models of real estate agency practice and failed, some spectacularly, for example - The Joneses.

I will probably sell my current house next year and I am considering this advice I got from a friend in the industry - If you want to make a few more k$ on your sale to make it worthwhile or to cover agent's fees for example, you could include other sweeteners - try including a new lawnmower and edge trimmer in the chattels list (if it's a big garden); banks are now offering iPads, cash, appliances etc on mortgages and there's no reason your list of chattels can't also include that wall mounted flat screen TV that would be difficult to move and diffficult to install anyway. How about some new whiteware that already fits well in the laundry room? How about a years paid up security monitoring? - these things cost you relatively little and actually add value and incentive to the new buyer if you get the market right. If you are going to target first home buyers, a new lawnmower would be awesome. If you live in a neighbourhood that has a bad reputation, a free security service would be sweet.

Good luck with your sale, it does seem to be a buyers market in Hamilton at present, some sales in my immediate area seem to have been really quick ('for sale' became 'sold' in a month or two, although I don't know the financial details).



All that does is inflate the price each time the house sells, as the hose has to sell at 5% more each time to cover the agents fee. This is possibly one reason that has caused house prices in some areas to increase more than they should, and increases property inflation. Overseas the commission agents get is quite a bit lower say 2%, and in small NZ towns commissions can be 3%. I have found you don'tusually get any more for chattels, as people will still want to get a property for around the RV. The RV though doesn't include chattels or improvements that don't need a consent, such as exterior landscaping and decking.

I have used 200 square which is a fixed fee of less than 5k, and it was very successful. Within a few weeks it was sold for what I wanted, and it had previously been on the market privately for several months. It is good because you only pay for the services you want, so it is a DIY system, but the agent handles all the negotiation and sales.

Geektastic
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  #1167565 3-Nov-2014 12:50
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PhantomNVD:
lxsw20: Good luck to the buyer getting a mortgage under terms like that. If your place is going to sell that easy then sell it on TM as a private sale. 


Well that's one I hadn't thought of...

Guess it's not really feasible, but damn those agents fees are ridiculous for what they do :(


I agree. We just got quoted a fixed fee of $38,000 + advertising.

Pretty steep when you are used to 1.5% including advertising...!





 
 
 
 


mattwnz
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  #1167572 3-Nov-2014 12:54
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Geektastic:
PhantomNVD:
lxsw20: Good luck to the buyer getting a mortgage under terms like that. If your place is going to sell that easy then sell it on TM as a private sale. 


Well that's one I hadn't thought of...

Guess it's not really feasible, but damn those agents fees are ridiculous for what they do :(


I agree. We just got quoted a fixed fee of $38,000 + advertising.

Pretty steep when you are used to 1.5% including advertising...!


Is that in the UK? Their agents are far better over there, and aren't so aggressive and in your face with all their branding.

Geektastic
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  #1167574 3-Nov-2014 12:59
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mattwnz:
Geektastic:
PhantomNVD:
lxsw20: Good luck to the buyer getting a mortgage under terms like that. If your place is going to sell that easy then sell it on TM as a private sale. 


Well that's one I hadn't thought of...

Guess it's not really feasible, but damn those agents fees are ridiculous for what they do :(


I agree. We just got quoted a fixed fee of $38,000 + advertising.

Pretty steep when you are used to 1.5% including advertising...!


Is that in the UK? Their agents are far better over there, and aren't so aggressive and in your face with all their branding.


Yes. They are also very negotiable and their fees include advertising as they regard it as cost of sale (for example, like Noel Leeming pay to advertise what they sell).

We have just submitted the agency contract for our proposed firm to our solicitor for comment, as it seems to have the widest liability exclusion clause I have ever seen; as I said in my letter of instruction to the solicitor, for a fee of $38,000 I certainly expect them to accept liability for their actions or omissions!

One of the reasons that the agents are often better is that commonly (not always) the firm are also Chartered Surveyors. The Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors exams are very similar in nature and difficulty to the Law Society exams, but are related to property matters.

Only qualified RICS members can value property (which probably explains why most UK houses for sale have a price on the ads, rather than some BLX like "we are letting the market find the value!") and they get severely hauled up if they do not comply with a very long list of rules and regulations. By hauled up I mean fines of tens of thousands as well as being struck off and unable to practice ever again..! They are also required to carry professional indemnity insurance for at least £2 million and maintain that for a period (5 years or so I think) after they retire.





Batman
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  #1167577 3-Nov-2014 13:02
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You can try negotiating tiered fees. If they get you x price 5% and they absorb advertising. 1c under x price 1% (don't start negotiating where you want to end up, coz it will go up, start below and end up there)




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


Batman
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  #1167579 3-Nov-2014 13:04
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For million dollar properties you are really relying on a big agency's database. And I won't go sole agent, get as many asd you can be bothered to cover as much exposure to their database. But advertise locally with one.




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


Batman
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  #1167586 3-Nov-2014 13:14
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jonathan18:
joker97: Trademe is all your need. it covers (I think) 95% of the local market. really.


Out of interest, have you had any personal and direct experience in selling houses solely by this method??!!

My concern is you're over-simplifying what is a far more complex beast, with so many variables (eg location, wider market conditions, vagaries and specifics of the local market...) that should determine the appropriate methods to sell any given house. As posted directly above, a TM listing is no assurance of success!


yes. I instructed all my agents I won't pay for any advertising, so they only listed on their site, trademe, and realestate.co.nz




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


 
 
 
 


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  #1167588 3-Nov-2014 13:16
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joker97: For million dollar properties you are really relying on a big agency's database. And I won't go sole agent, get as many asd you can be bothered to cover as much exposure to their database. But advertise locally with one.


i'm going to expand - even for non million dollar properties an agent's database "Can" be important. but anything in that range there isn't a hope in hell doing a private sale, or even locally. that ONE buyer you need is likely out of town at that point in time.




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


jonathan18
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  #1167592 3-Nov-2014 13:23
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joker97:
jonathan18:
joker97: Trademe is all your need. it covers (I think) 95% of the local market. really.


Out of interest, have you had any personal and direct experience in selling houses solely by this method??!!

My concern is you're over-simplifying what is a far more complex beast, with so many variables (eg location, wider market conditions, vagaries and specifics of the local market...) that should determine the appropriate methods to sell any given house. As posted directly above, a TM listing is no assurance of success!


yes. I instructed all my agents I won't pay for any advertising, so they only listed on their site, trademe, and realestate.co.nz


Ah, sorry, I mistakenly assumed that you were saying a TM listing is all one needs when selling one's own house; didn't realise you meant as part of a sale through an agent.

mattwnz
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  #1167606 3-Nov-2014 13:42
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joker97:
joker97: For million dollar properties you are really relying on a big agency's database. And I won't go sole agent, get as many asd you can be bothered to cover as much exposure to their database. But advertise locally with one.


i'm going to expand - even for non million dollar properties an agent's database "Can" be important. but anything in that range there isn't a hope in hell doing a private sale, or even locally. that ONE buyer you need is likely out of town at that point in time.


It would depend on the property. Agents don't magically have someone on their database to buy a million dollar property. If the property is large, and you have an executive with a large family, the cost of building a new house would likely be 1 million plus. So it isn't just overseas buyers that buy million dollar plus houses. Looks at stats, trademe is miles ahead in terms of visitors it gets, compared to the other realestate websites. If you ar catering to overseas buyers, then you are probably better to use a company that specialises in that area, and has access to advertising on overseas websites. Would be really interested to know what overseas websites are out there that advertise premium NZ houses?

networkn
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  #1167627 3-Nov-2014 13:54
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We bought a house one afternoon and sold our old house in 8 days from listing for $17K more than the asking price, with the same agent. He was the best I have come across and whilst the costs were high the stress was very low. 

It was like a stampede through the house from 2 hours after we listed it with him, it was amazing. 

He also did a good job for us getting the house we bought for a good price I think. 

I have seen some pretty scary legal issues come up after the sale of a house and one person I know who sold privately lost about 80K from an issue that would have been captured by having an experienced agent involved. 

I would NOT EVEN CONSIDER doing it the way you are suggesting in your OP, that's a terrible and scary idea. The legal ramifications would be MASSIVE.

Elpie
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  #1167693 3-Nov-2014 15:03
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n4:
Elpie:
joker97: Trademe is all your need. it covers (I think) 95% of the local market. really.

Not one phone call or inquiry from a TradeMe ad for me, despite over 5,000 views. Several came through the real estate agents site. 


Any difference in the adverts? Price/description/timeframes? Otherwise if they were exactly the same that is unexpected.


Same ad, same time, everything the same. They were up on the same day but while TradeMe had waaay more views it actually got less response. 

sir1963
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  #1168029 3-Nov-2014 21:37
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We had our place up for a private sale.
Reality was we were not worried about if we sold or not.

A person who rented the house next door (asian immigrant) thought he had to go to an estate agent to buy the house.
Agents cam and asked us to let them "look through", can you sign here.

Uh... no

"Its to cover insurance"

Ok... but scrub out the commission clause

So, they showed them through and we negotiated. Came to an agreeable price and then I said

Right... commission...we will pay you $2000, that $1000/hr, my lawyer is not even getting that.

They said they could not leave without $10,000


They left with nothing.



In the whole process of buying and selling a house, the real estate agent is the least qualified, yet they demand the highest fees.
In the UK they charge 0.75% which includes everything, there is NOTHING the NZ agents do that demands 6 times that price.


LookingUp
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  #1169216 5-Nov-2014 12:51
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My wife and I once got what we considered a great deal when we were looking at moving.  We found a house that we wanted to buy and made an offer contingent on the sale of our current property.  We then offered our current property to the same agent (who was quite formidable), and stipulated a rather optimistic minimum price, under which we wouldn't go under any circumstances.  That gave the agent incentive for two commissions, she worked very hard on the sale of our house, and actually got us quite a bit more than our preset minimum.  I guess this approach only works if you're moving locally, but you may be able to swing something similar if you're moving inter-city.

On the other hand, when buying rental properties we always look for the "shabbiest" agents, being those that are obviously struggling.  It tells us several things:

*  The seller may never have met the agent, and may therefore be from out of town.  There is a chance they're not fully in touch with the market so a bargain is on the cards.  Or, it could be a deceased estate, so again potentially a bargain.

*  The agent will be desperate to sell as they need their commission, and will therefore quite likely be more on the side of the buyer than the seller.

*  The agent may well put other buyers off = less competition for the property

So far this strategy has worked brilliantly.  We now have connections in the real estate industry, and while commissions are similar within a given franchise, there is huge variation in the income of the agents for the simple reason that some really are a lot better at selling than others.  If we were to sell any of our houses I'd be looking for the best agent I could find, as spending a few extra $K in commission will generally be more than recovered by the value they add to the sale price.




Things are LookingUp....  A photo from my back yard :-) 


networkn
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  #1169221 5-Nov-2014 12:56
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LookingUp: My wife and I once got what we considered a great deal when we were looking at moving.  We found a house that we wanted to buy and made an offer contingent on the sale of our current property.  We then offered our current property to the same agent (who was quite formidable), and stipulated a rather optimistic minimum price, under which we wouldn't go under any circumstances.  That gave the agent incentive for two commissions, she worked very hard on the sale of our house, and actually got us quite a bit more than our preset minimum.  I guess this approach only works if you're moving locally, but you may be able to swing something similar if you're moving inter-city.



The flaw in your theory is that a sale which has conditions like this will yield a higher selling price than one without. We got 30K off the price of our current house by removing stuff like and "taking a punt". 

30K more than covered the agents fees :) 


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