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Geektastic
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  #1168371 4-Nov-2014 12:05
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KiwiNZ:
Geektastic:
KiwiNZ:
Geektastic:
KiwiNZ: If we must have these things why not do it something relevant to New Zealand like Waitangi Day or Matariki


I do not regard them as culturally relevant to me.


We really do need to civilise you and get you eating Fush and Chups wearing UghBoots and at the mall and saying yeah nah. Then you will get it  :P


I was still mourning the loss of the Empire Day bank holiday when I left the UK so you may have an uphill struggle...!


Yep my Father in law talks about Bank holiday's... :)   so its an un-winnable campaign. 


It must be a throwback because most banks work part time hours anyway!! I went to pay a cheque into ASB in Masterton last weekend and they were closed on a Saturday. Of course, customers who work Monday-Friday wouldn't want to go into a bank on a Saturday.....





Hammerer
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  #1168412 4-Nov-2014 13:00
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We had nine years without buying fireworks. During that time we went to big events and small groups we were invited to join. IMO there is no comparison: small groups meeting with our own fireworks are much more memorable. The kids love a little "danger" and learn  some important lessons about fire, chemistry, explosives and safety. But even without that I still vote to keep them. Now my kids are teens and older it is even more fun.

 
 
 
 


toyonut
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  #1168422 4-Nov-2014 13:11
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I used to do all manner of stupid things with fireworks and absolutely loved them. Used to be able to buy massive and seriously dangerous fireworks year round in South Africa. I think I must be getting older grumpier and more cynical! Especially since we have had our Daughter, I am just finding them stupid with idiots letting them off all night before and for weeks after guy fawkes.
I think they will be banned because it is too difficult to enforce anything else. Enforcing a limit on what you can buy, or the areas you can use them or even the times you can use them is too hard.
If people would actually stick to using them for one or two nights a year outside of public displays, it would be fine, but they don't and won't.
Maybe instead of a ban, the Govt could make them more expensive through taxes or something so it is a bit of a deterrent to spending a months wages on them and letting them off for weeks. Give the tax raised to the SPCA, fire services and hospitals to cover damages.

*edited for neatness and readability*




Try Vultr using this link and get us both some credit:

 

http://www.vultr.com/?ref=7033587-3B


Elpie
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  #1168428 4-Nov-2014 13:13
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Mark: No, don't ban them.  The world is getting all boring and politically correct enough as it is, why can't people let other people have fun for a short period of the year ?

My kids love watching fireworks, and love having mini firework displays put on just for them,  why should they have that enjoyment taken away ?


You probably would have enjoyed watching my house burn down too. I understand watching fires can be really entertaining. 
The kids next door seemed to have fun watching their fireworks. They were all standing around when the fire brigade came. Their parents saw the repairs that resulted. Then they started again last night. So, yes, I'm all for taking away their fun. 

My kid never had private fireworks after my hand was burned but I took her to public displays every year. If parents can't make a public event into a fun occasion for kids there is something wrong. The private, lets-scare-animals-and-freak-out-the-neighbours fireworks aren't necessary for people to have fun. 



SirHumphreyAppleby
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  #1168435 4-Nov-2014 13:26
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Hammerer: IMO there is no comparison: small groups meeting with our own fireworks are much more memorable.


More memorable, and social. November 5th is the one time I get together with my neighbours to do anything even remotely social. The rest of the year we help each other out, but there is nothing like the sense of community that you get from getting together as a group for no reason other than to enjoy the evening.

I've handled large pyrotechnics (16" star shells), but nothing beats the enjoyment of crappy little fountains, sky rockets and sparklers in the front yard.

turnin
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  #1168539 4-Nov-2014 14:50
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Elpie:
Mark: No, don't ban them.  The world is getting all boring and politically correct enough as it is, why can't people let other people have fun for a short period of the year ?

My kids love watching fireworks, and love having mini firework displays put on just for them,  why should they have that enjoyment taken away ?


You probably would have enjoyed watching my house burn down too. I understand watching fires can be really entertaining. 
The kids next door seemed to have fun watching their fireworks. They were all standing around when the fire brigade came. Their parents saw the repairs that resulted. Then they started again last night. So, yes, I'm all for taking away their fun. 

My kid never had private fireworks after my hand was burned but I took her to public displays every year. If parents can't make a public event into a fun occasion for kids there is something wrong. The private, lets-scare-animals-and-freak-out-the-neighbours fireworks aren't necessary for people to have fun. 




My Kids love watching car accidents, on TV, movies, speedway and hanging around after crashes on the street , in fact plenty of kids do and adults.
My Kid never rides in a car because I crashed my car once, whilst using it inappropriately.

Car accidents cause more harm than fireworks do on ANY given day of the year. 400+ deaths , 12,000+ accidents  2,900+ hospitalisations + not sure about emergency callouts.
Public transport causes far far less, so by your logic we should ban the private back over children in driveways, kill kids on bikes, pollute world type cars and only allow public type transport. Lets face it privately owned and operated cars are not required for people to travel.

Incidentally public displays have the potential to cause more harm than private displays
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/10417925/Video-shows-fireworks-accident-at-Eden-Park

I suppose you could argue that if people were taught how to drive cars and be aware of the inherent risks of weight and momentum and to use common sense then we wouldn't need to ban everything, but you didn't, so, see you on the bus.


Mark
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  #1168543 4-Nov-2014 14:56
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Elpie:

You probably would have enjoyed watching my house burn down too. I understand watching fires can be really entertaining. 
The kids next door seemed to have fun watching their fireworks. They were all standing around when the fire brigade came. Their parents saw the repairs that resulted. Then they started again last night. So, yes, I'm all for taking away their fun. 

My kid never had private fireworks after my hand was burned but I took her to public displays every year. If parents can't make a public event into a fun occasion for kids there is something wrong. The private, lets-scare-animals-and-freak-out-the-neighbours fireworks aren't necessary for people to have fun. 



Ummmm .. why are you suggesting I'd enjoy watching your house burn down ?  I've never met you!  

Yes there are going to be accidents,  but life will be very VERY dull if we take away anything dangerous from our lives :-(  

Besides the accidents are all lessons to everyone else!  How else am I supposed to back up my lessons on safety to my kids when I have no examples to back myself up with ?




 
 
 
 


MikeB4
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  #1168553 4-Nov-2014 15:12
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Mark:
Elpie:

You probably would have enjoyed watching my house burn down too. I understand watching fires can be really entertaining. 
The kids next door seemed to have fun watching their fireworks. They were all standing around when the fire brigade came. Their parents saw the repairs that resulted. Then they started again last night. So, yes, I'm all for taking away their fun. 

My kid never had private fireworks after my hand was burned but I took her to public displays every year. If parents can't make a public event into a fun occasion for kids there is something wrong. The private, lets-scare-animals-and-freak-out-the-neighbours fireworks aren't necessary for people to have fun. 



Ummmm .. why are you suggesting I'd enjoy watching your house burn down ?  I've never met you!  

Yes there are going to be accidents,  but life will be very VERY dull if we take away anything dangerous from our lives :-(  

Besides the accidents are all lessons to everyone else!  How else am I supposed to back up my lessons on safety to my kids when I have no examples to back myself up with ?





You don't need to risk injury and damage property to teach your kids safety. Kids are taught that the Moon isn't made of cheese with out going there.

Mark
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  #1168576 4-Nov-2014 15:30
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KiwiNZ:
Mark: 

Yes there are going to be accidents,  but life will be very VERY dull if we take away anything dangerous from our lives :-(  

Besides the accidents are all lessons to everyone else!  How else am I supposed to back up my lessons on safety to my kids when I have no examples to back myself up with ?



You don't need to risk injury and damage property to teach your kids safety. Kids are taught that the Moon isn't made of cheese with out going there.


How else do people learn things other than by taking risks or learning from either their own mistakes or the mistakes of others ?

If we wrap all newborns up in cotton wool and stop them doing anything risky they will never learn to even walk!  Doing exciting risky things is what makes people grow.

Actually I have told my kids the moon is actually made of cheese (and have a book to back it up) I look forward to the day when they set out to prove me wrong by going there and coming back to call dad a dumbar$e! :-)

Just because some people are Darwin Award candidates or can't read simple instructions does not mean that the remaining 99.9999% of the world should miss out or should miss out on the valuable life lessons provided.

saeran
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  #1168610 4-Nov-2014 16:15
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I wrote about this here: http://www.beehivemandate.co.nz/comment/fireworks-the-solution/

I
t's about striking a balance between safety and fun.

jeffnz
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  #1168621 4-Nov-2014 16:28
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Mark:
KiwiNZ:
Mark: 

Yes there are going to be accidents,  but life will be very VERY dull if we take away anything dangerous from our lives :-(  

Besides the accidents are all lessons to everyone else!  How else am I supposed to back up my lessons on safety to my kids when I have no examples to back myself up with ?



You don't need to risk injury and damage property to teach your kids safety. Kids are taught that the Moon isn't made of cheese with out going there.


How else do people learn things other than by taking risks or learning from either their own mistakes or the mistakes of others ?

If we wrap all newborns up in cotton wool and stop them doing anything risky they will never learn to even walk!  Doing exciting risky things is what makes people grow.

Actually I have told my kids the moon is actually made of cheese (and have a book to back it up) I look forward to the day when they set out to prove me wrong by going there and coming back to call dad a dumbar$e! :-)

Just because some people are Darwin Award candidates or can't read simple instructions does not mean that the remaining 99.9999% of the world should miss out or should miss out on the valuable life lessons provided.



I agree we dumb people down and wrap in cotton wool but not in this particular circumstance. Injuries and damage don't happen just to the idiots nor do the idiots only terrify animals and pets. As has been said if it wasn't so intrusive on individuals noise wise over many weeks sometimes months it wouldn't be a problem. Some say its selfish to ban things but isn't also selfish of those that want to inflict their fun on others without permission or consideration.

I also think your 99.9999% isn't realistic and a lot more wouldn't read the instructions nor would it stop other from being harmed even if they did. 

Lets be honest if the were banned people would get upset for a few weeks maybe months but by this time next year it would be forgotten and other ways of " having fun" I'm sure could be found but it isn't one of our traditions to celebrate nor does it make any sense with all the damage etc it causes, fun for some but definitely not for lots of others 






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DravidDavid
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  #1168622 4-Nov-2014 16:28
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Ever since I saw the article on one news, three news, stuff, nzherald and other news websites that have this article on auto-publish...I've been pondering the question myself.

I think we should be encouraging people to let them off inside, shoot each other with them and strip them down to make bombs.  Let natural selection run its course and eventually we won't have a problem.  Perhaps we should celebrate Guy Fawkes by giving all firemen an annual three day holiday between the 2nd and 5th of November.

Some people just want to watch the world burn.

I get the pet argument, but seriously...I've come to the "No." decision because we are too pussy footed already on this kind of stuff.  I had dogs and cats and a pet magpie last Guy Fawkes.  All dogs bar one were OK with them and the magpie hated them.  It's MY JOB as a responsible pet owner to find suitable refuge for said animals.  After all, I decided I wanted a pet!  I had a friend to house the bird and put the dog in a kennel up north for a week.  It was either that, or try and train a dopey 5 year old Labrador how to not be skittish when he hears a bang in 3 days and wrap the magpie up in paper towels and duct tape to stop it from killing itself.  Not exactly an easy thing to do.

Bottom line is, if you have a skittish pet, it's not your neighbors responsibility to calm it down as part of the annual failed conspiracy day celebrations.  Keep the cat inside, the dog elsewhere and throw a blanket over the bird cage when it gets a bit too loud.  If none of those work, then it's up to you to find another way to solve the problem as part of your decision to own one.  Perhaps talk to your neighbors before the night and make them aware you have a skittish pet.  Tell them you would like them to let you know an hour before they decide to set them off.

Fires, damage to property and other accidents are just that.  ACCIDENTAL.  They can be solved at a later date.  Be a reasonable person, come to a compromise instead and stop trying to ruin the fun for 4 million people because you own a dog with anxiety problems.

TL;DR:  No.  There are more solutions to a problem than "BAN ALL THE THINGS!"

EDIT:  For the record, I think it's a stupid celebration and they can be annoying as hell, but I'm just one person.  All my neighbors love them, far be it from me to to call myself lord of the block and stop the majority enjoying themselves for a week.

jeffnz
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  #1168632 4-Nov-2014 16:40
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DravidDavid: Ever since I saw the article on one news, three news, stuff, nzherald and other news websites that have this article on auto-publish...I've been pondering the question myself.

I think we should be encouraging people to let them off inside, shoot each other with them and strip them down to make bombs.  Let natural selection run its course and eventually we won't have a problem.  Perhaps we should celebrate Guy Fawkes by giving all firemen an annual three day holiday between the 2nd and 5th of November.

Some people just want to watch the world burn.

I get the pet argument, but seriously...I've come to the "No." decision because we are too pussy footed already on this kind of stuff.  I had dogs and cats and a pet magpie last Guy Fawkes.  All dogs bar one were OK with them and the magpie hated them.  It's MY JOB as a responsible pet owner to find suitable refuge for said animals.  After all, I decided I wanted a pet!  I had a friend to house the bird and put the dog in a kennel up north for a week.  It was either that, or try and train a dopey 5 year old Labrador how to not be skittish when he hears a bang in 3 days and wrap the magpie up in paper towels and duct tape to stop it from killing itself.  Not exactly an easy thing to do.

Bottom line is, if you have a skittish pet, it's not your neighbors responsibility to calm it down as part of the annual failed conspiracy day celebrations.  Keep the cat inside, the dog elsewhere and throw a blanket over the bird cage when it gets a bit too loud.  If none of those work, then it's up to you to find another way to solve the problem as part of your decision to own one.  Perhaps talk to your neighbors before the night and make them aware you have a skittish pet.  Tell them you would like them to let you know an hour before they decide to set them off.

Fires, damage to property and other accidents are just that.  ACCIDENTAL.  They can be solved at a later date.  Be a reasonable person, come to a compromise instead and stop trying to ruin the fun for 4 million people because you own a dog with anxiety problems.

TL;DR:  No.  There are more solutions to a problem than "BAN ALL THE THINGS!"

EDIT:  For the record, I think it's a stupid celebration and they can be annoying as hell, but I'm just one person.  All my neighbors love them, far be it from me to to call myself lord of the block and stop the majority enjoying themselves for a week.



Unbelievable really so don't worry about the damage to people or property or the emergency services running around all over the place as long as "some" people can impose their "fun" on others. It wouldn't be so bad if it was something that benefited society or was actually required but it isn't its just a waste of time, find something else to do there is a huge choice.




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Elpie
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  #1168638 4-Nov-2014 16:46
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turnin:
I suppose you could argue that if people were taught how to drive cars and be aware of the inherent risks of weight and momentum and to use common sense then we wouldn't need to ban everything, but you didn't, so, see you on the bus.


How you can equate driving cars to use of fireworks, I don't know. I imagine that even you might want to ban cars if they were landing on your roof, setting your house on fire, destroying your sleep for weeks on end, and causing physical harm to you and/or your family. We have laws and enforcement for hoons ripping up streets and making a lot of noise even when said hoons are having fun. Not so with fireworks. 

I stand by what I said - licenses for fireworks to be used at private events (even outside the Guy Fawkes period) and ban on sale to the general public. 

turnin
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  #1168640 4-Nov-2014 16:48
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jeffnz:
DravidDavid: Ever since I saw the article on one news, three news, stuff, nzherald and other news websites that have this article on auto-publish...I've been pondering the question myself.

I think we should be encouraging people to let them off inside, shoot each other with them and strip them down to make bombs.  Let natural selection run its course and eventually we won't have a problem.  Perhaps we should celebrate Guy Fawkes by giving all firemen an annual three day holiday between the 2nd and 5th of November.

Some people just want to watch the world burn.

I get the pet argument, but seriously...I've come to the "No." decision because we are too pussy footed already on this kind of stuff.  I had dogs and cats and a pet magpie last Guy Fawkes.  All dogs bar one were OK with them and the magpie hated them.  It's MY JOB as a responsible pet owner to find suitable refuge for said animals.  After all, I decided I wanted a pet!  I had a friend to house the bird and put the dog in a kennel up north for a week.  It was either that, or try and train a dopey 5 year old Labrador how to not be skittish when he hears a bang in 3 days and wrap the magpie up in paper towels and duct tape to stop it from killing itself.  Not exactly an easy thing to do.

Bottom line is, if you have a skittish pet, it's not your neighbors responsibility to calm it down as part of the annual failed conspiracy day celebrations.  Keep the cat inside, the dog elsewhere and throw a blanket over the bird cage when it gets a bit too loud.  If none of those work, then it's up to you to find another way to solve the problem as part of your decision to own one.  Perhaps talk to your neighbors before the night and make them aware you have a skittish pet.  Tell them you would like them to let you know an hour before they decide to set them off.

Fires, damage to property and other accidents are just that.  ACCIDENTAL.  They can be solved at a later date.  Be a reasonable person, come to a compromise instead and stop trying to ruin the fun for 4 million people because you own a dog with anxiety problems.

TL;DR:  No.  There are more solutions to a problem than "BAN ALL THE THINGS!"

EDIT:  For the record, I think it's a stupid celebration and they can be annoying as hell, but I'm just one person.  All my neighbors love them, far be it from me to to call myself lord of the block and stop the majority enjoying themselves for a week.



Unbelievable really so don't worry about the damage to people or property or the emergency services running around all over the place as long as "some" people can impose their "fun" on others. It wouldn't be so bad if it was something that benefited society or was actually required but it isn't its just a waste of time, find something else to do there is a huge choice.

Ok, so then Ban Christmas and Easter celebrations, they cause more property damage/loss of life without benefiting society 

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