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alasta
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  #1173819 12-Nov-2014 20:32
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kiwigander: "Airlines with small aircraft are a dying breed all over the world. You just need to look at aircraft manufacturers to see this. There are no western 19 seat manufacturers and only the ATR-42 remains as a Western mid sized turbo prop being manufactured.

"Certification costs have killed the small airliner industry. This is not just a problem facing New Zealand. Many other countries around the world are facing the same issues (take Tonga for example).

"I see this issue only getting bigger as the stock of existing Metros, Saabs, Beeches etc. reach end of life. It is hard to see manufacturers jumping back into this space in the foreseeable future. Owning a small thin routes takes courage, money, and lots of money. "

The Dash-8 series, e.g Q400, is still very much in production.


The Q400 is a much larger aircraft than the Q300 which, from what I understand, is no longer in production.

hairy1
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  #1173827 12-Nov-2014 20:54
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Q400 is in a completely different class to the B1900 and Q300. It is designed to compete with the small regional jets. With 70+ seats and 360 kt cruise speed it is not a consideration here.




My views (except when I am looking out their windows) are not those of my employer.


 
 
 
 


myfullflavour

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  #1173856 12-Nov-2014 21:39
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KiwiNZ:
joker97: what happens to those regional airports?


They will remain for aeroclubs, charters and waiting for someone in the region to take up the challenge, reinvent the area and generate a demand for AirNZ to return.


Here's hoping Sunair can make it work:

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/tauranga-airline-flies-kaitaia-s-rescue-video-6128553

Though Kaitaia is probably marginal right? What's the population in the urban and surrounding area?

Whakatane I believe has a stronger business case with it's 35,000 population.

blakamin
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  #1174835 12-Nov-2014 22:17
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How do they still fly to Paraparaumu then?

Sidestep
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  #1174851 12-Nov-2014 23:05
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myfullflavour:
KiwiNZ:
joker97: what happens to those regional airports?


They will remain for aeroclubs, charters and waiting for someone in the region to take up the challenge, reinvent the area and generate a demand for AirNZ to return.


Here's hoping Sunair can make it work:

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/tauranga-airline-flies-kaitaia-s-rescue-video-6128553

Though Kaitaia is probably marginal right? What's the population in the urban and surrounding area?

Whakatane I believe has a stronger business case with it's 35,000 population.


Catchment would be roughly 15,000 including around 5,000 in Kaitaia.

A higher percentage would likely be fliers due to the relative isolation of the far North .

For work I sometimes justify flying to save time (but really just like to fly in the little Beech's)

And yes it will likely be marginal. I hope Sunair will have a go at it.

The clip mentions 12 pass aircraft (but shows an Aztec twin.. 6 seater?) wonder what they'll be flying?

sbiddle
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  #1174908 13-Nov-2014 07:24
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kiwigander: "Airlines with small aircraft are a dying breed all over the world. You just need to look at aircraft manufacturers to see this. There are no western 19 seat manufacturers and only the ATR-42 remains as a Western mid sized turbo prop being manufactured.

"Certification costs have killed the small airliner industry. This is not just a problem facing New Zealand. Many other countries around the world are facing the same issues (take Tonga for example).

"I see this issue only getting bigger as the stock of existing Metros, Saabs, Beeches etc. reach end of life. It is hard to see manufacturers jumping back into this space in the foreseeable future. Owning a small thin routes takes courage, money, and lots of money. "

The Dash-8 series, e.g Q400, is still very much in production.


Q400 is the only member still in production, and it's a ~78 seater, much bigger than a Q300 or ATR72.


sbiddle
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  #1174911 13-Nov-2014 07:27
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blakamin: How do they still fly to Paraparaumu then?


Paraparaumu is a break even destination, and has had Q300 services from day 1.



 
 
 
 


old3eyes
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  #1174938 13-Nov-2014 08:46
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blakamin: How do they still fly to Paraparaumu then?


My wife has done this AKL to PAR  flight and it's always near full when she's been on it....




Regards,

Old3eyes


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  #1174939 13-Nov-2014 08:48
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sometimes full may not mean they're making money.

not full however defintely means something's wrong.




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


MikeAqua
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  #1175024 13-Nov-2014 10:48
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I'm in two minds about this.  I can see an argument that if a route is unprofitable it should be dropped.  However, overall AirNZ's network is highly profitable.  I can also see an argument that if you are operating as a national carrier, you should operate a national network.  




Mike


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  #1175025 13-Nov-2014 10:52
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I think they should fly Dunedin Melbourne. I have nowhere to shop for Christmas now




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


sbiddle
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  #1175027 13-Nov-2014 10:57
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MikeAqua: I'm in two minds about this.  I can see an argument that if a route is unprofitable it should be dropped.  However, overall AirNZ's network is highly profitable.  I can also see an argument that if you are operating as a national carrier, you should operate a national network.  


What's your definition of a "national network"? Why do you not consider Air NZ to be running one?

What makes a destination such as Kerikeri any different to Wanaka?





tdgeek
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  #1175040 13-Nov-2014 11:19
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MikeAqua: I'm in two minds about this.  I can see an argument that if a route is unprofitable it should be dropped.  However, overall AirNZ's network is highly profitable.  I can also see an argument that if you are operating as a national carrier, you should operate a national network.  


If Air NZ was a government owned transport system, then yes, their traffic routes are a service, but they are a company, like any other, and like wage and salary earners. We want a profit, and we make efforts to reduce loss of income activities. If another carrier moves in, great. If Air NZ responded, thats a whole other story, and it would hit the fan. 

billbennett
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  #1175104 13-Nov-2014 12:10
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tdgeek:
MikeAqua: I'm in two minds about this.  I can see an argument that if a route is unprofitable it should be dropped.  However, overall AirNZ's network is highly profitable.  I can also see an argument that if you are operating as a national carrier, you should operate a national network.  


If Air NZ was a government owned transport system, then yes, their traffic routes are a service, but they are a company, like any other, and like wage and salary earners. We want a profit, and we make efforts to reduce loss of income activities. If another carrier moves in, great. If Air NZ responded, thats a whole other story, and it would hit the fan. 


There's a problem with leaving things to the market. 

Air NZ is big enough to wipe out a small competitor - say a regional airline - then once the competitor is eliminated, Air NZ may then halt or drastically cut its services in that region. In effect that's a lose-lose. 

Something like this may have already happened. Others will know more about that than me. 




Bill Bennett www.billbennett.co.nz @billbennettnz


afe66
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  #1175111 13-Nov-2014 12:12
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I thought the government owned 51% of air new Zealand and so has the "power" surely to tell the company they own to do this that and the other.

They appoint more of the board of directors than any other group or all the other shareholders combined.

They wont for political reasons or not wanting to interfere with a business but that's different surely from saying they "cant" interfere.


A.



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