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Fred99
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  #1179990 20-Nov-2014 10:36
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dickytim:
That is not to say they would never have good policies but that fundamentally they would always be left slanted and lean towards union/ lower socioeconomic groups.



That's an amnesiac view.  The Labour government elected in 1984 brought in (much needed) economic reforms, and replaced a National government which was behaving more like a hard-core socialist regime, with "think big" state funded projects, price and wage controls etc - as well as a divisive authoritarian manner from the PM.
IMO - over time there's not been consistency from either party.  There's perhaps a perception that National is socially conservative, Labour socially liberal, but even that's not consistent.  I suspect that many people vote one way or the other based on perception of social policy leaning from "spin" rather than policy/manifesto, but once a party is elected they forget the past.  
Labour's biggest problem is that despite spin from National, not a lot has changed.  We still have WFF, you're not allowed to thrash your kids, social liberal policies have been enacted anyway (ie same sex marriage), we haven't rounded up unemployed youths and sent them to army camp - then to fight crusades with the US, there's still a minimum wage, and changes to the tax system have been moderate.


networkn
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  #1179992 20-Nov-2014 10:39
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Fred99:
dickytim:
That is not to say they would never have good policies but that fundamentally they would always be left slanted and lean towards union/ lower socioeconomic groups.



That's an amnesiac view.  The Labour government elected in 1984 brought in (much needed) economic reforms, and replaced a National government which was behaving more like a hard-core socialist regime, with "think big" state funded projects, price and wage controls etc - as well as a divisive authoritarian manner from the PM.
IMO - over time there's not been consistency from either party.  There's perhaps a perception that National is socially conservative, Labour socially liberal, but even that's not consistent.  I suspect that many people vote one way or the other based on perception of social policy leaning from "spin" rather than policy/manifesto, but once a party is elected they forget the past.  
Labour's biggest problem is that despite spin from National, not a lot has changed.  We still have WFF, you're not allowed to thrash your kids, social liberal policies have been enacted anyway (ie same sex marriage), we haven't rounded up unemployed youths and sent them to army camp - then to fight crusades with the US, there's still a minimum wage, and changes to the tax system have been moderate.



It might surprise you to know you've never been allowed to *thrash* your kids, nor should you be, even if it's allowed.



 
 
 
 


dickytim
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  #1180064 20-Nov-2014 12:31
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Fred99:
dickytim:
That is not to say they would never have good policies but that fundamentally they would always be left slanted and lean towards union/ lower socioeconomic groups.



That's an amnesiac view.  The Labour government elected in 1984 brought in (much needed) economic reforms, and replaced a National government which was behaving more like a hard-core socialist regime, with "think big" state funded projects, price and wage controls etc - as well as a divisive authoritarian manner from the PM.
IMO - over time there's not been consistency from either party.  There's perhaps a perception that National is socially conservative, Labour socially liberal, but even that's not consistent.  I suspect that many people vote one way or the other based on perception of social policy leaning from "spin" rather than policy/manifesto, but once a party is elected they forget the past.  
Labour's biggest problem is that despite spin from National, not a lot has changed.  We still have WFF, you're not allowed to thrash your kids, social liberal policies have been enacted anyway (ie same sex marriage), we haven't rounded up unemployed youths and sent them to army camp - then to fight crusades with the US, there's still a minimum wage, and changes to the tax system have been moderate.



Until they get rid of the rob from the rich to feed the poor the left will never get my vote.

The 1984 "think big" strategy was to steal peoples super and build a steel plant. Don't get me wrong I benefit from the Steel Mill indirectly so I don't want it to go away, but its origins were questionable.

And the point about unemployed youth being sent to Army camps, that is also why I won't vote labour, this needs to happen!

MikeB4
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  #1180066 20-Nov-2014 12:33
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dickytim:
Fred99:
dickytim:
That is not to say they would never have good policies but that fundamentally they would always be left slanted and lean towards union/ lower socioeconomic groups.



That's an amnesiac view.  The Labour government elected in 1984 brought in (much needed) economic reforms, and replaced a National government which was behaving more like a hard-core socialist regime, with "think big" state funded projects, price and wage controls etc - as well as a divisive authoritarian manner from the PM.
IMO - over time there's not been consistency from either party.  There's perhaps a perception that National is socially conservative, Labour socially liberal, but even that's not consistent.  I suspect that many people vote one way or the other based on perception of social policy leaning from "spin" rather than policy/manifesto, but once a party is elected they forget the past.  
Labour's biggest problem is that despite spin from National, not a lot has changed.  We still have WFF, you're not allowed to thrash your kids, social liberal policies have been enacted anyway (ie same sex marriage), we haven't rounded up unemployed youths and sent them to army camp - then to fight crusades with the US, there's still a minimum wage, and changes to the tax system have been moderate.



Until they get rid of the rob from the rich to feed the poor the left will never get my vote.

The 1984 "think big" strategy was to steal peoples super and build a steel plant. Don't get me wrong I benefit from the Steel Mill indirectly so I don't want it to go away, but its origins were questionable.

And the point about unemployed youth being sent to Army camps, that is also why I won't vote labour, this needs to happen!


If memory serves me right "Think Big" was Robert Muldoon

sen8or
993 posts

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  #1180093 20-Nov-2014 13:32
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If Andrew Little ever sees the Baubles of PMs office, can the last business left please remember to switch off the lights before leaving the country..........

networkn
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  #1180098 20-Nov-2014 13:36
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sen8or: If Andrew Little ever sees the Baubles of PMs office, can the last business left please remember to switch off the lights before leaving the country..........


To be fair Labours policies seem to mostly sit around making it harder for small businesses to operate and aren't respective of Andrew, though I 100% disagree with Unions in general and he is a huge advocate of them and I believe he has promised them the earth in exchange for their support. 


Aredwood
3885 posts

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  #1180993 21-Nov-2014 18:47

KiwiNZ:
dickytim:
michael001:
Geektastic: They could elect Jeebus himself as leader. They still won't ever get a vote from me!


Your political views are very well documented in these forums. You vote blue, always.

- What would happen if Labour came up with a bunch of ideas that you agreed with?
- What would you do if a left leaning politician turned up with a cracking set of ideas that would benefit all of New Zealanders? 

Not that I want to compare you in a negative light but every time you repeat your political views I have this image in mind of you being the Geekzone version of a street thug - your blue bandana hanging from hip, pants around arse and always looking for red guys to punch over.


Good question there, but if labour produced such policies they would not be labour any more!

That is not to say they would never have good policies but that fundamentally they would always be left slanted and lean towards union/ lower socioeconomic groups.

I would like to see all political parties able to say "damn thats s great idea we'll support you" regarless of who comes up with it.


Ever read the reforms of the Lange Labour Government?



Have a read of the 2008 labour manifesto as well. It says they will sell non core state assets. (didn't say what counts as non core)





 
 
 
 


networkn
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  #1181971 24-Nov-2014 10:32
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Dear Lord. Annette King is his deputy. Not sure two worse people could be leader and co-leader, except perhaps Mallard and Cullen.

tripp
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  #1181977 24-Nov-2014 10:41
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networkn: Dear Lord. Annette King is his deputy. Not sure two worse people could be leader and co-leader, except perhaps Mallard and Cullen.

Just saw this and it's worst than the last lot now.

There is no way in hell that this will win back the people that have moved away from them.


Geektastic
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  #1182087 24-Nov-2014 12:40
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mrtoken:
networkn: Dear Lord. Annette King is his deputy. Not sure two worse people could be leader and co-leader, except perhaps Mallard and Cullen.

Just saw this and it's worst than the last lot now.

There is no way in hell that this will win back the people that have moved away from them.



 

Splendid. Keep it up, Little!





dickytim
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  #1182099 24-Nov-2014 12:59
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9 more years?

JWR

JWR
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  #1182114 24-Nov-2014 13:33

KiwiNZ:
dickytim:
Fred99:
dickytim:
That is not to say they would never have good policies but that fundamentally they would always be left slanted and lean towards union/ lower socioeconomic groups.



That's an amnesiac view.  The Labour government elected in 1984 brought in (much needed) economic reforms, and replaced a National government which was behaving more like a hard-core socialist regime, with "think big" state funded projects, price and wage controls etc - as well as a divisive authoritarian manner from the PM.
IMO - over time there's not been consistency from either party.  There's perhaps a perception that National is socially conservative, Labour socially liberal, but even that's not consistent.  I suspect that many people vote one way or the other based on perception of social policy leaning from "spin" rather than policy/manifesto, but once a party is elected they forget the past.  
Labour's biggest problem is that despite spin from National, not a lot has changed.  We still have WFF, you're not allowed to thrash your kids, social liberal policies have been enacted anyway (ie same sex marriage), we haven't rounded up unemployed youths and sent them to army camp - then to fight crusades with the US, there's still a minimum wage, and changes to the tax system have been moderate.



Until they get rid of the rob from the rich to feed the poor the left will never get my vote.

The 1984 "think big" strategy was to steal peoples super and build a steel plant. Don't get me wrong I benefit from the Steel Mill indirectly so I don't want it to go away, but its origins were questionable.

And the point about unemployed youth being sent to Army camps, that is also why I won't vote labour, this needs to happen!


If memory serves me right "Think Big" was Robert Muldoon




Yes it was the Muldoon-led National government. Arguably, the most extreme left-wing government New Zealand has ever had.

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