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DarthKermit
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  #1198325 16-Dec-2014 11:00
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Fred99:
DarthKermit: I'm bloody glad that he's dead now.


I'm not - for several reasons:
Other nutters will see / claim him as a martyr.  Yes - this is crazy - but they are nutters.
It was an easy way out and probably exactly what he wanted/expected - incarceration for life would have fit the crime better.
For future hostage situations, "terrorist" or not, greater belief by the perpetrator that they won't get out of it alive isn't a good thing for the chances for the innocent victims being held captive.  


Does it make any difference if these guys are killed or locked up for the rest of their lives? I don't think you can appease these crazy muslims. The extreme ones all see us as unwashed infidels.




Whatifthespacekeyhadneverbeeninvented?


freitasm
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  #1198330 16-Dec-2014 11:05
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DarthKermit: Does it make any difference if these guys are killed or locked up for the rest of their lives? I don't think you can appease these crazy muslims. The extreme ones all see us as unwashed infidels.


Why single out Muslims? Why not other fundamentalist loonies? Let's turn around and think of the Conservative Christian Right Tea Party and their crazy actions in the USA - exclusion of black people, denial of gay rights, no votes for latinos, etc. Or state-sponsored terror, such as Russian incursions into Ukraine?

What if the guy holding hostages in Sydney was a white Christian? Not a terrorist then?







 

 

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MikeB4
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  #1198357 16-Dec-2014 11:35
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it's not about Race,Creed,Politics or Religion. It is about actions.

freitasm
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  #1198358 16-Dec-2014 11:36
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Sure. But my point is that people are quick to single out specifics.




 

 

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Fred99
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  #1198363 16-Dec-2014 11:44
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KiwiNZ: it's not about Race,Creed,Politics or Religion. It is about actions.


No it's not.
If this had been a siege/hostage situation without suggested links to Islamic terrorist groups, then it wouldn't have dominated world news in the way it did - front page lead news for basically every major daily newspaper in the world.

ilovemusic
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  #1198366 16-Dec-2014 11:45
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the guy on tv the other night got t right.

cancel passports after these miscreants have left the country, let them kill each other overseas instead of at home.

MikeB4
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  #1198367 16-Dec-2014 11:46
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Fred99:
KiwiNZ: it's not about Race,Creed,Politics or Religion. It is about actions.


No it's not.
If this had been a siege/hostage situation without suggested links to Islamic terrorist groups, then it wouldn't have dominated world news in the way it did - front page lead news for basically every major daily newspaper in the world.


Yes it would, not because of Islam or whomever, but because it sells.

 
 
 
 


Fred99
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  #1198372 16-Dec-2014 11:58
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KiwiNZ:
Fred99:
KiwiNZ: it's not about Race,Creed,Politics or Religion. It is about actions.


No it's not.
If this had been a siege/hostage situation without suggested links to Islamic terrorist groups, then it wouldn't have dominated world news in the way it did - front page lead news for basically every major daily newspaper in the world.


Yes it would, not because of Islam or whomever, but because it sells.


It "sells" because of suggested link to "terrorism".
"USA Today" front page (web):


Resolved incident in Sydney has top position,  Lunatic gunman who's already killed 6, armed and on the run in Pa relegated to second position.

Rikkitic
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  #1198377 16-Dec-2014 12:18
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Social media sites, like this one, add fuel to the flames because of critical mass and the rush to judgement. Bad people do bad things, people die. It happens all the time. Of course we want to protect ourselves, but how to protect from those with a hidden agenda? The biggest problem is that the mass of people, who are perfectly decent, are not critical thinkers. They just want instant, easy answers. Muslim = terrorist is an easy answer. Immigrant = threat is another one. Newspaper publishers are in business to sell papers. Politicians are in business to get elected. Don’t blame them for pandering to public prejudices. It is the unknown faces working out of sight on their hidden agendas that concern me. These are the people who steal elections and undermine democracy.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


SaltyNZ

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  #1198413 16-Dec-2014 13:08
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itxtme:
One had to wonder why they used multiple volleys of burst fire in a room filled with hostages, gotta wonder if the dead persons and injured are victims of police gunfire, guess we will have to wait and see what the police media machine spin up.


Hadn't considered that, you may well be right!


My extensive experience at games such as Counter Strike and Call of Duty leads me to conclude that the best way to approach the situation is to blow the door open with a shotgun, throw a couple of pre-cooked stun grenades through, and then leap in with akimbo submachine guns. Upon the feet leaving the ground, the perception of time will slow down to about one twentieth of normal for the police who will have a subjective minute or so to carefully aim at just the gunman so as not to even disturb the potted plant he is standing next to. This action will empty both 30-round magazines, and reloading would force the police back to normal time, so it's fortunate there's just the one lunatic in this situation.




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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


MikeB4
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  #1198441 16-Dec-2014 14:00
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SaltyNZ:
itxtme:
One had to wonder why they used multiple volleys of burst fire in a room filled with hostages, gotta wonder if the dead persons and injured are victims of police gunfire, guess we will have to wait and see what the police media machine spin up.


Hadn't considered that, you may well be right!


My extensive experience at games such as Counter Strike and Call of Duty leads me to conclude that the best way to approach the situation is to blow the door open with a shotgun, throw a couple of pre-cooked stun grenades through, and then leap in with akimbo submachine guns. Upon the feet leaving the ground, the perception of time will slow down to about one twentieth of normal for the police who will have a subjective minute or so to carefully aim at just the gunman so as not to even disturb the potted plant he is standing next to. This action will empty both 30-round magazines, and reloading would force the police back to normal time, so it's fortunate there's just the one lunatic in this situation.


I am waiting for all the armchair/gaming chair experts to come in with their professional judgement on how police units handled the situation followed by their pontifications on what they would have done  which of course would be a thousand times better.

Fred99
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  #1198467 16-Dec-2014 15:05
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KiwiNZ:
SaltyNZ:
itxtme:
One had to wonder why they used multiple volleys of burst fire in a room filled with hostages, gotta wonder if the dead persons and injured are victims of police gunfire, guess we will have to wait and see what the police media machine spin up.


Hadn't considered that, you may well be right!


My extensive experience at games such as Counter Strike and Call of Duty leads me to conclude that the best way to approach the situation is to blow the door open with a shotgun, throw a couple of pre-cooked stun grenades through, and then leap in with akimbo submachine guns. Upon the feet leaving the ground, the perception of time will slow down to about one twentieth of normal for the police who will have a subjective minute or so to carefully aim at just the gunman so as not to even disturb the potted plant he is standing next to. This action will empty both 30-round magazines, and reloading would force the police back to normal time, so it's fortunate there's just the one lunatic in this situation.


I am waiting for all the armchair/gaming chair experts to come in with their professional judgement on how police units handled the situation followed by their pontifications on what they would have done  which of course would be a thousand times better.


Perhaps even more annoying and just as inevitable will be assorted conspiracy theory, the scope of which probably can't even be imagined until after it's surfaced - hopefully not in this forum...
Oh - and then there's Fox News:
"Speaking on Fox News after police stormed the Lindt cafe,  Charles Hurt, a writer with the conservative newspaper The Washington Times and a Fox News contributor, said: "These people are hell bent to kill innocent people … In a free society there is nothing you can do about it. You can't prevent all these things from happening, which is why most Americans, when they see this stuff play out … they think about guns and it is why they think about personal gun ownership and being able to protect yourself, protect your family and protect your neighbours."
(SMH)

heylinb4nz
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  #1198476 16-Dec-2014 15:38
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Fred99:
KiwiNZ:
SaltyNZ:
itxtme:
One had to wonder why they used multiple volleys of burst fire in a room filled with hostages, gotta wonder if the dead persons and injured are victims of police gunfire, guess we will have to wait and see what the police media machine spin up.


Hadn't considered that, you may well be right!


My extensive experience at games such as Counter Strike and Call of Duty leads me to conclude that the best way to approach the situation is to blow the door open with a shotgun, throw a couple of pre-cooked stun grenades through, and then leap in with akimbo submachine guns. Upon the feet leaving the ground, the perception of time will slow down to about one twentieth of normal for the police who will have a subjective minute or so to carefully aim at just the gunman so as not to even disturb the potted plant he is standing next to. This action will empty both 30-round magazines, and reloading would force the police back to normal time, so it's fortunate there's just the one lunatic in this situation.


I am waiting for all the armchair/gaming chair experts to come in with their professional judgement on how police units handled the situation followed by their pontifications on what they would have done  which of course would be a thousand times better.


Perhaps even more annoying and just as inevitable will be assorted conspiracy theory, the scope of which probably can't even be imagined until after it's surfaced - hopefully not in this forum...
Oh - and then there's Fox News:
"Speaking on Fox News after police stormed the Lindt cafe,  Charles Hurt, a writer with the conservative newspaper The Washington Times and a Fox News contributor, said: "These people are hell bent to kill innocent people … In a free society there is nothing you can do about it. You can't prevent all these things from happening, which is why most Americans, when they see this stuff play out … they think about guns and it is why they think about personal gun ownership and being able to protect yourself, protect your family and protect your neighbours."
(SMH)



As for the conspiracy theory its entirely plausible that Australian intelligence agency knew this was going to play out and happen but kept quiet. People are naive to think that governments would value 1 or 2 lives over something that would allow them to pass through more legislation or simply condition the public thinking for future legislation.

 

Just saying that not all conspiracy theories have to be elaborately concocted by CIA spooks. 

Note: US Government (and Australia) have sent many to die in Iraq and Afghanistan, not for safety of AUS/USA but to further western policy and agenda in the middle east. 1 or 2 people in a cafe doesnt even register on their moral scale.


Sideface
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  #1198477 16-Dec-2014 15:42
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Fred99: Oh - and then there's Fox News:

"Speaking on Fox News after police stormed the Lindt cafe,  Charles Hurt, a writer with the conservative newspaper The Washington Times and a Fox News contributor, said: "These people are hell bent to kill innocent people … In a free society there is nothing you can do about it. You can't prevent all these things from happening, which is why most Americans, when they see this stuff play out … they think about guns and it is why they think about personal gun ownership and being able to protect yourself, protect your family and protect your neighbours."
(SMH)


... so the best way to stop lunatics from kidnapping and shooting people is to give everybody "personal guns".
That works really well in the USA ...




Sideface


MikeB4
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  #1198478 16-Dec-2014 15:50
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heylinb4nz:
Fred99:
KiwiNZ:
SaltyNZ:
itxtme:
One had to wonder why they used multiple volleys of burst fire in a room filled with hostages, gotta wonder if the dead persons and injured are victims of police gunfire, guess we will have to wait and see what the police media machine spin up.


Hadn't considered that, you may well be right!


My extensive experience at games such as Counter Strike and Call of Duty leads me to conclude that the best way to approach the situation is to blow the door open with a shotgun, throw a couple of pre-cooked stun grenades through, and then leap in with akimbo submachine guns. Upon the feet leaving the ground, the perception of time will slow down to about one twentieth of normal for the police who will have a subjective minute or so to carefully aim at just the gunman so as not to even disturb the potted plant he is standing next to. This action will empty both 30-round magazines, and reloading would force the police back to normal time, so it's fortunate there's just the one lunatic in this situation.


I am waiting for all the armchair/gaming chair experts to come in with their professional judgement on how police units handled the situation followed by their pontifications on what they would have done  which of course would be a thousand times better.


Perhaps even more annoying and just as inevitable will be assorted conspiracy theory, the scope of which probably can't even be imagined until after it's surfaced - hopefully not in this forum...
Oh - and then there's Fox News:
"Speaking on Fox News after police stormed the Lindt cafe,  Charles Hurt, a writer with the conservative newspaper The Washington Times and a Fox News contributor, said: "These people are hell bent to kill innocent people … In a free society there is nothing you can do about it. You can't prevent all these things from happening, which is why most Americans, when they see this stuff play out … they think about guns and it is why they think about personal gun ownership and being able to protect yourself, protect your family and protect your neighbours."
(SMH)



As for the conspiracy theory its entirely plausible that Australian intelligence agency knew this was going to play out and happen but kept quiet. People are naive to think that governments would value 1 or 2 lives over something that would allow them to pass through more legislation or simply condition the public thinking for future legislation. Just saying that not all conspiracy theories have to be elaborately concocted by CIA spooks. 

Note: US Government (and Australia) have sent many to die in Iraq and Afghanistan, not for safety of AUS/USA but to further western policy and agenda in the middle east. 1 or 2 people in a cafe doesnt even register on their moral scale.



Have you forgotten 9/11?



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