Slaughter of Innocents

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Mad Scientist
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#1200306 19-Dec-2014 08:13

Donation should be compares as a percentage of income not absolute figures

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Fred99

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#1200310 19-Dec-2014 08:31

networkn:
KiwiNZ:
freitasm:
networkn: Along with all the evil committed in the world, a great deal of good has been done in the name of God and Religion (Charity has it's roots in religion).

Sorry, but disagree. This is similar to some religious people claiming religion defines moral and atheists have no morals because of lack of believe in a God.

Charity can be done without religion involved, doesn't require religion and can be a natural thing even for someone without a religious upbring.

Charity does not need religion but charity often occurs because of someones religious belief and that is a good thing.

That was the point I was trying to make.

I believe considerably less charity would occur without religion

It depends how you define true "charity".
It should come "without strings" IMO (think Fred Hollows, MSF etc), not with the expectation that the receiver should be obliged in any way to offer anything at all in return.
Crazy mixed up world, the Muslim faith probably understands/defines this better than any other religion, yet look what happens.

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#1200312 19-Dec-2014 08:41

Geektastic:
freitasm:
Hammerer: You fail to understand the situation with Moslem/Islamic terrorists if you think that this is a religious issue. There are strong religious and philosphical drivers but this is still, as is other forms of terrorism, primarily political.

It is easier to classify Moslem/Islamic terrorists as purely religious because they don't use the same concepts or categories as we do in European civilization. They don't have or see any need for religious and political separation.

Almost pretty true. Islamism is an extremist political ideology that holds Islam as the only guide/set of rules. It's different from Islam, the religion.

Extremism as a political movement is bad, regardless of left or right, Christian or Islamic.

I'm not so sure it is different. There certainly are parts of the Koran which urge believers to be very violent towards unbelievers as well as apostates and so on.

If it was a group of Imams etc preaching that god had told them to do X then yes it would be separate from the religion; if it actually appears in your religious text that infidels should be put to the sword, that makes it part of the religion in my view.

Either someone believes the holy text or they don't - you can't decide a god said it but I don't like Part A so I won't take any notice of Part A but the rest is ok.....

I don't think its fair (either of you or a religion's leaders) to insist that every adherent believes every word of a particular text. In my view, religion is a personal belief system, so the person gets to choose what's included. What you're saying is that people can't be religious, they must be [religion]ist.

It's interesting to turn this round and look at the Old Testament of the Bible, which is not only Judaism's holy text, but also Part A of Christianity's holy text, and of Islam's. It says amongst other things that adulterers (which, depending on your definition of adultery, could include practically everyone in today's society) should be stoned to death, gays killed, pork not be eaten, etc. And that God helped the Jews (in the ethnic tribal rather than religious sense) to kill non-Jews. And that PI = 3.000 (1 Kings 7:23).

Are all Muslims, Jews, and Christians required to fail at geometry? Not use anything that depends on PI being 3.14... (i.e. return to the Stone Age)?

networkn

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#1200352 19-Dec-2014 09:31

MrJonathanNZ:
networkn:
KiwiNZ:
freitasm:
networkn: Along with all the evil committed in the world, a great deal of good has been done in the name of God and Religion (Charity has it's roots in religion).

Sorry, but disagree. This is similar to some religious people claiming religion defines moral and atheists have no morals because of lack of believe in a God.

Charity can be done without religion involved, doesn't require religion and can be a natural thing even for someone without a religious upbring.

Charity does not need religion but charity often occurs because of someones religious belief and that is a good thing.

That was the point I was trying to make.

I believe considerably less charity would occur without religion

It would be interesting to see an amount total for charity given by churches (to cover the religious aspect) and charity given by businesses, although the religion of the business person donating would play a part I would imagine the charity from business (Gates, Buffet) would be greater than the charity of religion.

You understand that a lot of businesses donate because the people inside them hold religious beliefs which fuel their desire to be charitable in the first place? Obviously there are some who do so for the tax savings alone, but I'd be surprised if that was the only factor for many.

freitasm

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#1200359 19-Dec-2014 09:44

Destiny's Church shower of cash comes to mind:

The main stage at Destiny Church Auckland..this morning..littered wth 10,000s of $100 & $50 bills..."Attitude" pic.twitter.com/T01HAqR5zM

— Bishop Brian Tamaki (@BishopTamaki) November 30, 2014

Batman

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#1200377 19-Dec-2014 09:48

That's not donation that's a scam. Like the Prince of Nigeria would solicit.

networkn

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#1200378 19-Dec-2014 09:48

freitasm: Destiny's Church shower of cash comes to mind:

The main stage at Destiny Church Auckland..this morning..littered wth 10,000s of $100 & $50 bills..."Attitude" pic.twitter.com/T01HAqR5zM

— Bishop Brian Tamaki (@BishopTamaki) November 30, 2014

I don't believe for one second there is any "God" in that "Church"

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#1200379 19-Dec-2014 09:48

Someone once said if you want to get rich start a business. If you want to get really rich start a religion.

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#1200380 19-Dec-2014 09:49

networkn:
freitasm: Destiny's Church shower of cash comes to mind:

The main stage at Destiny Church Auckland..this morning..littered wth 10,000s of $100 & $50 bills..."Attitude" pic.twitter.com/T01HAqR5zM
— Bishop Brian Tamaki (@BishopTamaki) November 30, 2014

I don't believe for one second there is any "God" in that "Church"

The good bishop comes to mind

heylinb4nz

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#1200390 19-Dec-2014 09:55

Religion does not make the man, people can be charitable without believing in or having anything to do with the man in the sky.

I'm about the most un-religious person I know but I am charitable, often donating on Give Little to various causes, helping friends when they need help, volunteer days, donating to school fundraisers, doing free website work for small business owners....id even give someone my last beer if they were thirsty.

In saying that I accept some people cant come to terms with death, or they are not strong enough to get though life without believing in something...so religion does have its place....whether or not its real or not...time will tell..but I don't begrudge people their religion and would expect that my interests and beliefs (conspiracy theories) are also treated the same.

Note: I used to have faith and attended Catholic church for 3 straight years, I have read the Bible, and also parts of the Quran, and studied the history \ orgins of both Christianity and Islam. So at least I can say (unlike some other here) I have looked at the other side of the coin in detail and made decisions based on the facts as I see them.

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#1200665 19-Dec-2014 16:56

joker97: Someone once said if you want to get rich start a business. If you want to get really rich start a religion.

Your old pal L. Ron Hubbard.

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

networkn

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#1200666 19-Dec-2014 16:57

More innocents have been slaughtered!!!

8 Kids are dead and a woman in hospital after a fatal stabbing in Queensland.

MikeB4

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#1200668 19-Dec-2014 17:03

networkn: More innocents have been slaughtered!!!

8 Kids are dead and a woman in hospital after a fatal stabbing in Queensland.

Very very sad

networkn

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#1200670 19-Dec-2014 17:05

KiwiNZ:
networkn: More innocents have been slaughtered!!!

8 Kids are dead and a woman in hospital after a fatal stabbing in Queensland.

Very very sad

Outrageous. You know I don't understand how it could be even possible for a person to entertain the concept of killing a kid.

MikeB4

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#1200672 19-Dec-2014 17:09

networkn:
KiwiNZ:
networkn: More innocents have been slaughtered!!!

8 Kids are dead and a woman in hospital after a fatal stabbing in Queensland.

Very very sad

Outrageous. You know I don't understand how it could be even possible for a person to entertain the concept of killing a kid.

I am a parent and grandparent, it absolutely sickens me that so many children are murdered each and every year. I just cannot understand the minds and motives of the animals that do these things

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