Annual leave anniversary date question.

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#1241333 18-Feb-2015 09:54

My sick leave appears to last forever (I'm up to 55 days) but policy here is an eight-week cap on annual leave. After six weeks they start pestering you to take some :)

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Paul1977

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#1241336 18-Feb-2015 10:02

Behodar: My sick leave appears to last forever (I'm up to 55 days) but policy here is an eight-week cap on annual leave. After six weeks they start pestering you to take some :)

Do you just get the standard 5 days a year?

afe66

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#1241340 18-Feb-2015 10:08

I got up to 18 weeks unused leave.

Payroll contacted me and said I had to take 3 months off.

I mentioned this to my HOD who said there was no way he could afford to loose me for 3 months and pointed out it would be much more expensive to employ a temp/locum yo do my job in meant time.

Management agreed and paid out 3 months salary. 😊.

So did I buy a car / New pc ??

No, did sensible thing and dumped it all into the mortgage...

A.

PolicyGuy

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#1241342 18-Feb-2015 10:10

The employee is bein paid entirely in accordance with the Holidays Act 2003 (as amended) Section 34:

"34 Calculation of pay during closedown period for employee not entitled to annual holidays
(1) This section applies to an employee who, at the commencement of a closedown period, is not entitled to annual holidays under section 16.
(2) An employer must, in respect of the closedown period, pay the employee 8% of the employee’s gross earnings since the commencement of the employee’s employment or since the employee last became entitled to annual holidays (as the case may be), less any amount—

(a) paid to the employee for annual holidays taken in advance; or

(b) paid in accordance with section 28.

(3) An employee who is paid annual holiday pay calculated in accordance with subsection (2) is not otherwise entitled—

(a) to any annual holidays for the period of employment up to the date of the beginning of the closedown period; or

(b) to any remuneration for the period of the closure or discontinuance of work.

(4) This section does not prevent an employer and employee from agreeing that the employee may take the period of the closedown as annual holidays in advance under section 20 and be paid for the period in accordance with section 22. "

IANAL, but it would appear that the application of S34(3) would be that the employee's annual leave entitlement would begin to accrue again from zero as a result of this 8% payment. Depending how you read S34(3)(b), the accrual date might be the end of the shutdown rather than the beginning.

If you're really worried, get professional advice - not from the HR department, they are paid by the employer not the employee

Geektastic

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#1241345 18-Feb-2015 10:16

My curiosity related to describing it as pay rather than days off.

Surely as an employee one wants to know merely how many more days off you have at a given moment? The pay isn't relevant unless you get paid at a different rate for holiday than any other paid day surely?

Handle9

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#1241356 18-Feb-2015 10:18

Geektastic: My curiosity related to describing it as pay rather than days off.

Surely as an employee one wants to know merely how many more days off you have at a given moment? The pay isn't relevant unless you get paid at a different rate for holiday than any other paid day surely?

Holiday pay is paid at a different rate than normal pay. It is related to your total earnings for the year (including incentives and overtime) rather than your salary.

lxsw20

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#1241357 18-Feb-2015 10:18

afe66: I got up to 18 weeks unused leave.

Payroll contacted me and said I had to take 3 months off.

I mentioned this to my HOD who said there was no way he could afford to loose me for 3 months and pointed out it would be much more expensive to employ a temp/locum yo do my job in meant time.

Management agreed and paid out 3 months salary. 😊.

So did I buy a car / New pc ??

No, did sensible thing and dumped it all into the mortgage...

A.

Interesting, didn't think the employer could pay out more than a week per year.

PolicyGuy

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#1241365 18-Feb-2015 10:25

It gets paid as pay (8% of gross to date) because that's what the Holidays Act permits in that situation.
Other employers just let Annual Leave enitlements accumulate pro rata, and let the employee take accumulated and, if required, anticipated Annual Leave during a shutdown, that's S34(4).

The OP's employer has chosen to take the S34(2) path rather than the S34(4), but that is at the employer's discretion.
I would choose not to work for such an employer if I could, but ...

afe66

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#1241373 18-Feb-2015 10:33

Can't see why they can't pay out more than a week if correct. Maybe to stop employers not giving leave just more cash..

In my case, I didn't really want the leave forced on me, partner working so either I go on holiday by myself or stay at home getting bored after couple of weeks.

They offered the cash and I accepted it.

Previous job similar thing happened. Good thing for bank balance, probably not for work life balance.

A.

lxsw20

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#1241377 18-Feb-2015 10:38

http://www.dol.govt.nz/er/holidaysandleave/annualleave/cashing-up.asp

That's the bit I'm thinking of. Sounds like yours was in good faith but to the letter of the law they shouldn't really have offered it.

4possm

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#1241385 18-Feb-2015 10:40

lxsw20:
afe66: I got up to 18 weeks unused leave.

Payroll contacted me and said I had to take 3 months off.

I mentioned this to my HOD who said there was no way he could afford to loose me for 3 months and pointed out it would be much more expensive to employ a temp/locum yo do my job in meant time.

Management agreed and paid out 3 months salary. 😊.

So did I buy a car / New pc ??

No, did sensible thing and dumped it all into the mortgage...

A.

Interesting, didn't think the employer could pay out more than a week per year.

Technically by the letter of the law they are only allowed to pay out 1 week annual leave as cash and this MUST be initiated by the employee not the employer. By the sounds of things what they have done is technically against the laws of the holidays act.

In saying that I wish I could convince my work to even pay me out a weeks holiday

jonathan18

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#1241386 18-Feb-2015 10:41

afe66: Can't see why they can't pay out more than a week if correct. Maybe to stop employers not giving leave just more cash..

In my case, I didn't really want the leave forced on me, partner working so either I go on holiday by myself or stay at home getting bored after couple of weeks.

They offered the cash and I accepted it.

Previous job similar thing happened. Good thing for bank balance, probably not for work life balance.

A.

Cashing-up annual holidays

As of 1 April 2011, employees are able to ask their employer to pay out in cash up to one week of their minimum entitlement to annual holidays per year.

The Amendment Act introducing cashing up annual holidays provides that a request may be made only in relation to an entitlement year that begins on or after 1 April 2011. Employees cannot cash up annual holiday entitlements that arose before 1 April 2011.

An entitlement year is defined as beginning on the anniversary of the employee’s employment. An employee who becomes entitled to annual holidays on their anniversary date on or after 1 April 2011 is able to request cash up of up to one week of their annual holidays during the 12 month period of their entitlement year that runs from that point.

For example, an employee with an anniversary date of 1 June is able to request that up to one week is cashed up of their four week entitlement that they receive on 1 June 2011. Their request can be made at any point in the entitlement year that runs from 1 June 2011 to 1 June 2012.

Cashing up annual holidays can only be at the employee’s request and the request must be made in writing. Employees may request to cash up less than a week at a time. More than one request may be made until a maximum of one week of the employee’s annual holidays is paid out in each entitlement year (the period of 12 months’ continuous employment from the anniversary of the employee’s starting date). (continued at link below)

Source: http://www.dol.govt.nz/er/holidaysandleave/annualleave/cashing-up.asp

(Edited to format text)

jonathan18

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#1241408 18-Feb-2015 10:52

afe66: Can't see why they can't pay out more than a week if correct. Maybe to stop employers not giving leave just more cash..

In my case, I didn't really want the leave forced on me, partner working so either I go on holiday by myself or stay at home getting bored after couple of weeks.

They offered the cash and I accepted it.

Previous job similar thing happened. Good thing for bank balance, probably not for work life balance.

A.

The reality is a good employer shouldn't let a leave balance reach anything like these proportions - not just for their own bottom line (the liability of such pay-outs) but also it's their responsibilty to ensure they find someone else to do the job in your absence, and it's clearly poor future planning if they don't have a suitable backup plan in place should you leave or be sick/injured (or fill in when on leave).

My other concern, as someone highly supportive of worker's rights, is that that it's really poor practice by the company to not ensure their employees take (regular) leave from their job, which is important for so many reasons (health, stress, family relationships...). Wow, the practices that firms get away with in the private sector...

Behodar

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#1241434 18-Feb-2015 11:00

Paul1977: Do you just get the standard 5 days a year?

I'm not sure off the top of my head, and the software for requesting leave is a buggy mess (example: "37 hours + 24 days = 61").

4possm

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#1241436 18-Feb-2015 11:01

jonathan18:
afe66: Can't see why they can't pay out more than a week if correct. Maybe to stop employers not giving leave just more cash..

In my case, I didn't really want the leave forced on me, partner working so either I go on holiday by myself or stay at home getting bored after couple of weeks.

They offered the cash and I accepted it.

Previous job similar thing happened. Good thing for bank balance, probably not for work life balance.

A.

The reality is a good employer shouldn't let a leave balance reach anything like these proportions - not just for their own bottom line (the liability of such pay-outs) but also it's their responsibilty to ensure they find someone else to do the job in your absence, and it's clearly poor future planning if they don't have a suitable backup plan in place should you leave or be sick/injured (or fill in when on leave).

My other concern, as someone highly supportive of worker's rights, is that that it's really poor practice by the company to not ensure their employees take (regular) leave from their job, which is important for so many reasons (health, stress, family relationships...). Wow, the practices that firms get away with in the private sector...

The company I work for now, we have a staff member that had so much accrued A/L that we had to force him to take off 1 day every week to run it down because he didn't want to take holidays.
He now has every Wednesday off for the next 2 years.

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