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Mr Snotty
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  Reply # 1274838 31-Mar-2015 22:19
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Today I went into Spark Riccarton and got a SIM - this cost me $5, the first time they provisioned the wrong number on it and the 2nd time they got it right - fair enough, I am a patient sort of guy and understand this is a new thing for them.

The first time I couldn't get the Netcode from ASB - thought it was them but no, it was me.
With the new SIM I had to get Semble de-activated off the old SIM, this took an hour and I was back in, the ASB card took around 5mins to fully activate and I was set, went to buy a sundae from McDonalds and got the following:

Drivethrough Guy: erm EFTPOS?
Me: Nah, Paywave.
Drivethrough Guy: -tries to grab card from me-
Me: Hold the terminal here.
Drivethrough Guy: -holds terminal near car- WTFBBQSFL WUT WAS THAT? HOW DID YOU DO THAT? LOLWUT?
Me: Just my phone...



sonyxperiageek: 
I wonder if it will work at Countdown terminals Lol!


I am going to try this tomorrow and complain that I can't swipe or insert my phone into the EFTPOS Terminal.




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  Reply # 1274878 1-Apr-2015 00:18
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kemosabe:
ubernoob:
jaidevp:
ubernoob:
sbiddle:
ubernoob: It appears my phone is supported on Spark, but not 2Degrees or Vodafone.

Why is that?

 Looks like whoever supports the most phones will win


What exactly do you mean? And what handset do you have?

I'm assuming you your handset is only officially supported by Spark, rather than being a model that's sold by all networks.




I thought if the hardware and software worked with Semble for one company it would work for all.

I have Sony Xperia z1



That's correct i.e. A Semble supported device from Voda should work on Spark and vice versa.  Device support however is best efforts if we didn't originally supply the handset.



Thank you, I'll be popping in to my local. Hope they have some sim's left :-)


Same situation. Sony Z1 on 2degrees.

Says only Spark supports the Z1 on Semble site, but when I try and install the App, only the Vodafone App says its compatible with the Z1 (but the Z1 is not listed on Semble site as compatible for Vodafone). 

I assume the Vodafone App wont work with a 2degrees Semble SIM?  

I am not holding much hope for public uptake in the near future with this randomness.

   


Just to clear up some confusion here.  The Semble App performs some eligibility checks when it is run, it will check that you have the correct Semble ready SIM for the the carrier version of the app you downloaded i.e Semble for Spark app only works with a Spark Semble SIM.  It will also do the root check and a device/software version check. If any of these fail it will advise with an appropriate error message.

If you use a Semble eligible device from Spark (we only list what we sell/sold) on the other 2 carriers, you *may be able to install their Semble app from the Google Playstore.  You may have to ask 2Degrees whats preventing this on your Z1.  As stated device support will be best efforts and may differ depending on carrier.






 
 
 
 


Awesome
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  Reply # 1274879 1-Apr-2015 00:30
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So why does Semble need one app per carrier?




Twitter: ajobbins


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  Reply # 1274880 1-Apr-2015 00:47
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No idea. Im hoping that the whole card registration carryon isnt lost when I put sims between devices etc because its so bloody time consuming to do. 10+ mins for it to go from the bank to the semble app then forever for it to install it with a warning not to close the app.

To be honest, I was expecting that once I had the app and the sim I could just tap a card to the phone to load it, but that would be far too easy, instead I have to log into internet banking in an in-app browser, so cant use lastpass (first PITA moment) - then choose the card to add, (took many many goes to get that to happen as I was browsing around kmart at st lukes) - then it says it may take up to 10 mins. First card took more, second card took about 10. Then they show in the app ready to load. Tap on it and it starts the "1 min" process which seems like forever. Cant do both at once, because that would be too smart.

Then they are in the app, ASB send an SMS to the number (not the number I have registered for netcode) that I have to go assign a pin to the card. The PITA thing is they dont say where. Im sure last time I did it there was an option on the left menu but now its in a settings menu at the top of ASB fastnet. Cant do it in the mobile fastnet, has to be the full one. Great when you are on a mobile trying to find it. Could have SMS me details of where it was.

but anyway, the cards show there as semble visa and the last 4 digits of the made up card number. The made up card number means nothing to me, and is useless to me because I cant see the whole thing, so I cant use it anywhere so why bother with it? Would be useful if I could have named the virtual cards so that I know which is which, or at least call them Semble Visa Debit and Semble Visa Credit. Too bad if I had more than one debit or credit card to not know which it was.

So then finally add a pin in there with a stupid-ass onscreen keyboard that is in random order "for security" and then it sends a netcode - so grab the other phone and put that code in. if only there was an app from the bank that could handle reciept of a netcode and do all that for me, because I love typing an 8 digit number in from one screen into another screen.

Repeat hassle process for second card. I have no idea which is which so just set them the same as each other so I dont have to worry about entering the wrong pin and screwing things up (Its not 1234 before you ask)

So then get the courage to try it. Luckily kmart is self checkout so no embarassment if it doesnt work.. Chose a card in the app and it was active for 30 seconds, stick it on the reader. Details of the amount and stuff came up on the phone and pin pad asked for pin because it was $120. Put pin in and it processed about as slow as paywave normally does on an ASB card.

So that was a sucess.

Next up maccas balmoral with the choose your own burger touchscreens.

Amount came up, put phone on the thing while the card was active and this time amount of the purchase didnt come up on the phone, but it processed straight away with the normal delay and accepted.

So another suceess.

not sure what they will make of it at the drive thru where you normally hand your card over and say that its paywave so they dont stick it in the machine and hand it back..




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  Reply # 1274881 1-Apr-2015 01:11
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jaidevp:
kemosabe:
ubernoob:
jaidevp:
ubernoob:
sbiddle:
ubernoob: It appears my phone is supported on Spark, but not 2Degrees or Vodafone.

Why is that?

 Looks like whoever supports the most phones will win


What exactly do you mean? And what handset do you have?

I'm assuming you your handset is only officially supported by Spark, rather than being a model that's sold by all networks.




I thought if the hardware and software worked with Semble for one company it would work for all.

I have Sony Xperia z1



That's correct i.e. A Semble supported device from Voda should work on Spark and vice versa.  Device support however is best efforts if we didn't originally supply the handset.



Thank you, I'll be popping in to my local. Hope they have some sim's left :-)


Same situation. Sony Z1 on 2degrees.

Says only Spark supports the Z1 on Semble site, but when I try and install the App, only the Vodafone App says its compatible with the Z1 (but the Z1 is not listed on Semble site as compatible for Vodafone). 

I assume the Vodafone App wont work with a 2degrees Semble SIM?  

I am not holding much hope for public uptake in the near future with this randomness.

   


Just to clear up some confusion here.  The Semble App performs some eligibility checks when it is run, it will check that you have the correct Semble ready SIM for the the carrier version of the app you downloaded i.e Semble for Spark app only works with a Spark Semble SIM.  It will also do the root check and a device/software version check. If any of these fail it will advise with an appropriate error message.

If you use a Semble eligible device from Spark (we only list what we sell/sold) on the other 2 carriers, you *should be able to install their Semble app from the Google Playstore.  You may have to ask 2Degrees whats preventing this on your Z1.  As stated device support will be best efforts and may differ depending on carrier.



Thanks for the reply. That sounds straight forward. But what doesn't make sense to me that Google Play limits access to the App by showing compatibility with your device (thats before Semble gets to install / check for Root or SIM):

> Semple App for 2Degrees says its not compatible with my Z1
> Semple App for Spark says its not compatible with my Z1 - Even though it is a Spark (telecom) supplied phone AND listed is compatible on the Semble Spark page.
> Semple for Vodafone says it IS compatible (even though its NOT listed as compatible on the Semble Vodafone page)

I am happy with the statement that devices are supported on best effort basis, but it seems to me there are some inconsistency here with the App publishing. If the Vodafone app will install on my phone, I would have thought the 2Degrees one should also. And the Spark one should as well because the phone is a Spark supplied device (Z1, ver 4.4.4 not rooted).

Just odd thats all.


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  Reply # 1274897 1-Apr-2015 06:34
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and my phone says its avaliable from the play story (spark app) and i can download and install it but when you run it you get an error saying its not compatible

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  Reply # 1274901 1-Apr-2015 07:32
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Jase2985: and my phone says its avaliable from the play story (spark app) and i can download and install it but when you run it you get an error saying its not compatible


Do you have the latest available OS updates on your phone?


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  Reply # 1274916 1-Apr-2015 08:41
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roobarb:
hazza87: I may as well get a SIM from 2degrees and find out, however i am not holding out too much hope since the snapper sim never worked on it.


Semble has similar requirements to Snapper/2degrees Touch2Pay,  SIM Alliance OpenMobile API installed by OEM and SWP. Hence no Nexus etc.  


I'd like to expand on this.

This is what it looks like when you attempt to install the APK on a device without this:

D/DefContainer(25155): Copying /storage/emulated/0/Download/Semble_com.twodegreesmobile.semble_1.3.1_103010000[1].apk to base.apk D/PackageManager(  713): Renaming /data/app/vmdl1210188180.tmp to /data/app/com.twodegreesmobile.semble-1 E/installd(  207): Couldn't opendir /data/data/com.twodegreesmobile.semble: No such file or directory W/PackageManager(  713): Package couldn't be installed in /data/app/com.twodegreesmobile.semble-1 W/PackageManager(  713): com.android.server.pm.PackageManagerException: Package com.twodegreesmobile.semble requires unavailable shared library org.simalliance.openmobileapi; failing! W/PackageManager(  713): at com.android.server.pm.PackageManagerService.updateSharedLibrariesLPw(PackageManagerService.java:5193) W/PackageManager(  713): at com.android.server.pm.PackageManagerService.scanPackageDirtyLI(PackageManagerService.java:5502) W/PackageManager(  713): at com.android.server.pm.PackageManagerService.scanPackageLI(PackageManagerService.java:5285) W/PackageManager(  713): at com.android.server.pm.PackageManagerService.installNewPackageLI(PackageManagerService.java:10173) W/PackageManager(  713): at com.android.server.pm.PackageManagerService.installPackageLI(PackageManagerService.java:10703) W/PackageManager(  713): at com.android.server.pm.PackageManagerService.access$2300(PackageManagerService.java:234) W/PackageManager(  713): at com.android.server.pm.PackageManagerService$6.run(PackageManagerService.java:8623) W/PackageManager(  713): at android.os.Handler.handleCallback(Handler.java:739) W/PackageManager(  713): at android.os.Handler.dispatchMessage(Handler.java:95) W/PackageManager(  713): at android.os.Looper.loop(Looper.java:135) W/PackageManager(  713): at android.os.HandlerThread.run(HandlerThread.java:61) W/PackageManager(  713): at com.android.server.ServiceThread.run(ServiceThread.java:46) I/art     (  713): Explicit concurrent mark sweep GC freed 99450(4MB) AllocSpace objects, 29(3MB) LOS objects, 27% free, 43MB/59MB, paused 2.315ms total 181.319ms D/InstallAppProgress(25138): Installation error code: -9


The bit in bold shows it trying to find this API. The sim card containing the secure element is only accessible through the RIL, Radio Interface Layer which talks to the Baseband/Radio.
Both the baseband and the RIL have to support communicating with this API in order to access the secure element in the sim.

There is an interesting project called SEEK for android which attempts to provide a reference implementation of this API. However because the Nexus range for example lacks this functionality through the stack, it's not going to work.

SmartCardService exists in AOSP tree but is blank and has been ever since its added:
https://android.googlesource.com/platform/packages/apps/SmartCardService/+/refs/heads/master


So in summary, unless you can hack this into the proprietary baseband somehow, as i understand it this will never work on the nexus devices. This is why you need to use Host Card Emulation instead of the secure element on the sim card.

Perhaps "Android Wallet" will expand on NFC capabilities at Google IO if that goes somewhere, which is reportedly different from google wallet.

Appreciate corrections to the above where i'm wrong. Some further investigation and proper reverse engineering would be interesting to investigate with this application.

edit: One thing i'm not sure on is Single Wire Protocol support, how it differs from above and whether the Nexus 4, 5 and 6 support this in the NFC controller. The Nexus S and Galaxy Nexus appeared to, from what i can gather from some quick searching. As i understand it Softcard Payments uses SWP. More researching is required here as I currently don't fully understand it.

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  Reply # 1274942 1-Apr-2015 09:13
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michaelmurfy:

sonyxperiageek: 
I wonder if it will work at Countdown terminals Lol!


I am going to try this tomorrow and complain that I can't swipe or insert my phone into the EFTPOS Terminal.


Sorry to burst your bubble Countdown does not accept Visa Debit via Paywave, this is because they cant pass on the fee to the user so they just dont accept it, same with Debit Mastercard I think.




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  Reply # 1274959 1-Apr-2015 09:34
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Cralfe:
ZombieJohn:
Cralfe: Somewhat disappointed with the narrow range of supported devices and OS versions to be honest, definitely hope they can cover more ground over the next few weeks/months.



(Unreasonably hoping for HCE since I'm on a nexus 5)


I am working on the assumption that the Nexus devices will be supported at some point, as I picked up my Nexus 5 from 2 degrees 1.5 years ago. If not, im not too concerned as the S6 has got enough of my attention to warrant an upgrade.

The other problem I have is that I currently bank with Kiwibank. Over the last couple of months, while waiting for this solution, I have seriously considered moving banks (technology is a big motivator for me). 

I look forward to the solution being tested further and the kinks ironed out. 


Not holding much hope for it, and though the S6 looks fantastic I don't think the price tag is worth the upgrade for me. Here's to hoping Google Wallet expands here or something...


Nothing has bugged me more than knowing the potential for the functionality of tap to pay has been sitting on my Nexus since inception.

At this point my biggest bug-bear for upgrading the Nexus is my battery life. It is absolutely atrocious! 

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  Reply # 1274975 1-Apr-2015 09:44
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kemosabe:
jaidevp:
kemosabe:
ubernoob:
jaidevp:
ubernoob:
sbiddle:
ubernoob: It appears my phone is supported on Spark, but not 2Degrees or Vodafone.

Why is that?

 Looks like whoever supports the most phones will win


What exactly do you mean? And what handset do you have?

I'm assuming you your handset is only officially supported by Spark, rather than being a model that's sold by all networks.




I thought if the hardware and software worked with Semble for one company it would work for all.

I have Sony Xperia z1



That's correct i.e. A Semble supported device from Voda should work on Spark and vice versa.  Device support however is best efforts if we didn't originally supply the handset.



Thank you, I'll be popping in to my local. Hope they have some sim's left :-)


Same situation. Sony Z1 on 2degrees.

Says only Spark supports the Z1 on Semble site, but when I try and install the App, only the Vodafone App says its compatible with the Z1 (but the Z1 is not listed on Semble site as compatible for Vodafone). 

I assume the Vodafone App wont work with a 2degrees Semble SIM?  

I am not holding much hope for public uptake in the near future with this randomness.

   


Just to clear up some confusion here.  The Semble App performs some eligibility checks when it is run, it will check that you have the correct Semble ready SIM for the the carrier version of the app you downloaded i.e Semble for Spark app only works with a Spark Semble SIM.  It will also do the root check and a device/software version check. If any of these fail it will advise with an appropriate error message.

If you use a Semble eligible device from Spark (we only list what we sell/sold) on the other 2 carriers, you *should be able to install their Semble app from the Google Playstore.  You may have to ask 2Degrees whats preventing this on your Z1.  As stated device support will be best efforts and may differ depending on carrier.



Thanks for the reply. That sounds straight forward. But what doesn't make sense to me that Google Play limits access to the App by showing compatibility with your device (thats before Semble gets to install / check for Root or SIM):

> Semple App for 2Degrees says its not compatible with my Z1
> Semple App for Spark says its not compatible with my Z1 - Even though it is a Spark (telecom) supplied phone AND listed is compatible on the Semble Spark page.
> Semple for Vodafone says it IS compatible (even though its NOT listed as compatible on the Semble Vodafone page)

I am happy with the statement that devices are supported on best effort basis, but it seems to me there are some inconsistency here with the App publishing. If the Vodafone app will install on my phone, I would have thought the 2Degrees one should also. And the Spark one should as well because the phone is a Spark supplied device (Z1, ver 4.4.4 not rooted).

Just odd thats all.



Ok that is odd, can you email me (jaidev.patel at where I work..) a screen shot of the settings, About page, particularly would like to capture everything from Model onwards.



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  Reply # 1275233 1-Apr-2015 13:10
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sbiddle:
Jase2985: and my phone says its avaliable from the play story (spark app) and i can download and install it but when you run it you get an error saying its not compatible


Do you have the latest available OS updates on your phone?



yes but the phone is not listed on Sembles site

i was just curious if it worked or not, dont plan on using it at the moment

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  Reply # 1275249 1-Apr-2015 13:29
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I have an xperia Z on 2degrees.

Not listed as compatible for 2degrees but is for spark

Bought a $10 sim, downloaded semble for 2degrees, phone not compatible.

Can I use the spark app?

Ok quick answer, no.

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  Reply # 1275296 1-Apr-2015 14:00
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Picked up the Semble SIM (SIMble?) from Spark at lunchtime. Waited 30 minutes or so to make sure the new SIM was activated. Switched the old SIM for the new SIM in my HTC One M7 [see note 1], opened the Semble app and entered my personal details, jumped into my mail app to hit the email address confirmation link, added two BNZ Visa cards [see note 2] and set one up as "always on". I ran a stopwatch from the time my phone recognised the new SIM to the time setup was complete: less than 11 minutes. Well done Semble, Spark and BNZ - I know from experience how difficult it can be trying to get several large companies working together.

All I have to do now is try to use it! Which I will do this evening...

1. This was probably the hardest part of the process - I need the middle (micro) sized SIM but when trying to remove it from the "trio SIM" card, the smaller nano SIM kept wanting to pop out. Maybe it's just that my fingers are too fat, or maybe the cut line between the standard and micro SIMs needs to be more defined (or the line between the micro and nano SIMs less defined), but I found it really hard to get the micro and nano bits to come out together in one piece. My phone also didn't recognise the SIM the first time I put it in - had to pop the slot out and give everything a jiggle and put it back in again.

2. Some have said it was difficult to know which cards were which when they had multiple cards loaded. It seemed easy enough for me - the Gold and Classic Visas each displayed in the appropriate colour on screen and showed the last four digits of the card number.

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  Reply # 1275303 1-Apr-2015 14:03
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The card number is not the same as the physical card. If you had 2 cards of the same type loaded would mean relearning what card is what. I'm "lucky" that business banking is with westpac so do t have that problem yet.

when pinning the card in the asb site it didn't say which was the debit and which was the credit one. I would either have to switch apps or remember it before I started the browser to put the pin on.




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