Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 

gzt

10305 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1582


  Reply # 1251020 4-Mar-2015 14:06
Send private message

"Mr Bain’s claim for compensation falls outside existing Cabinet guidelines because when his conviction was quashed, a retrial was ordered. However, Cabinet has also reserved a residual discretion to consider claims outside the guidelines in “extraordinary circumstances … where this is in the interests of justice”. To satisfy the test for the payment of compensation that applies in his case, Mr Bain will need to prove his innocence on the balance of probabilities and be able to satisfy Cabinet that the circumstances are sufficiently extraordinary that it would be in the interests of justice for compensation to be paid."

NZ Government

gzt

10305 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1582


  Reply # 1251038 4-Mar-2015 14:11
Send private message

Geektastic: Another long term prisoner released - will we see the same dodging re compensation?

No, we will not. Because this case easily meets the defined cabinet criteria for compensation.

 
 
 
 


Mad Scientist
19316 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2526

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1251040 4-Mar-2015 14:12
Send private message

Mr Bain is unlikely to be innocent however you look at it




Swype on iOS is detrimental to accurate typing. Apologies in advance.


1715 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 833


  Reply # 1251044 4-Mar-2015 14:16
One person supports this post
Send private message

gzt:
Geektastic: Another long term prisoner released - will we see the same dodging re compensation?

No, we will not. Because this case easily meets the defined cabinet criteria for compensation.


My understanding is that there is still some consideration whether there should be another re-trial, which, I would think, suggests he is certainly not eligible yet.




Most of the trouble in the world is caused by people wanting to be important. (T.S. Eliot)


754 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 583


  Reply # 1251068 4-Mar-2015 14:38
Send private message

Primary difference between the cases (IMHO) is that there is DNA evidence that definitively proves that someone else committed the rape of SusanB, and it's reasonable to argue that the person who did rape her was the person most likely to have killed her.

Whereas in the Bain case, there has been no proof (or even any conjecture that passed initial scrutiny) that identifies anyone else as the killer.

Thus, David will need to establish a case that shows somehow it is more likely that someone (E.g. Robin) else did it, than him in order for this to meet the threshold of a "grave miscarriage of justice"

335 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 86


  Reply # 1251077 4-Mar-2015 14:53
Send private message

I think compensation is an interesting debate. My position is as follows. If the trial is fair and there are no material mistakes by the police/judiciary, then the government shouldn't be liable for compensation. The occasional incorrect verdict is a unfortunate by-product of our judicial system but if the police prove their case to beyond reasonable doubt and your lawyer can't beat their arguments at the time, you've unfortunately rolled the dice and lost.

I appreciate that if I was wrongly convicted, I may have a different opinion. 

1889 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 316


  Reply # 1251091 4-Mar-2015 15:29
Send private message

mattbush: We are fortunate to live in a country where our justice system is not corrupt or biased. You may like to compare with the journalists held in Egypt for so long and whether or not they will seek compensation! 

I agree we have one of the least corrupt justice systems in the world, but I believe it is heavily biased, especially in family cases regarding asset splitting and children.  Having been intimately involved in a very recent case involving a friend of mine (and previous cases involving family on business matters), and am quite confident based on what I've seen that small yet significant injustices happen every day that just shouldn't happen at all.  In all cases, it was pretty clear to see that the legal system is over-worked and under staffed, which may be a significant contributor to the aforementioned injustice that occurs.

KiwiNZ: there is a big difference between corruption and making mistakes

In Pora's case, the police made mistakes and also demonstrated corruption by paying witnesses to say all the right things to keep him in prison.





Sometimes what you don't get is a blessing in disguise!

gzt

10305 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1582


  Reply # 1251094 4-Mar-2015 15:36
Send private message

floydbloke:
gzt:
Geektastic: Another long term prisoner released - will we see the same dodging re compensation?

No, we will not. Because this case easily meets the defined cabinet criteria for compensation.


My understanding is that there is still some consideration whether there should be another re-trial, which, I would think, suggests he is certainly not eligible yet.

Gosh. That's true:

"[]Lord Brian Kerr on Tuesday asked the parties to instead make written submissions within four weeks "as to whether the appellant should be ordered to stand trial again".

http://www.3news.co.nz/nznews/retrial-decision-delay-surprised-poras-legal-team-2015030410

13563 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 6359

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1251096 4-Mar-2015 15:37
Send private message

DravidDavid:
mattbush: We are fortunate to live in a country where our justice system is not corrupt or biased. You may like to compare with the journalists held in Egypt for so long and whether or not they will seek compensation! 

I agree we have one of the least corrupt justice systems in the world, but I believe it is heavily biased, especially in family cases regarding asset splitting and children.  Having been intimately involved in a very recent case involving a friend of mine (and previous cases involving family on business matters), and am quite confident based on what I've seen that small yet significant injustices happen every day that just shouldn't happen at all.  In all cases, it was pretty clear to see that the legal system is over-worked and under staffed, which may be a significant contributor to the aforementioned injustice that occurs.

KiwiNZ: there is a big difference between corruption and making mistakes

In Pora's case, the police made mistakes and also demonstrated corruption by paying witnesses to say all the right things to keep him in prison.


If the later is correct then there is an element of corruption and it is quite likely that there would be a call for an enquiry.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 Mac user, Windows curser, Chrome OS desired.

 

The great divide is the lies from both sides.

 

 


gzt

10305 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1582


  Reply # 1251102 4-Mar-2015 15:42
Send private message

SheriffNZ: I think compensation is an interesting debate. My position is as follows. If the trial is fair and there are no material mistakes by the police/judiciary, then the government shouldn't be liable for compensation.

Any particular case aside. As I understand it, this is not the legal position provided by the cabinet guidelines. It is not actually a liability at this level, it is an issue of providing justice where justice did not occur (even though all due process may have been followed).

3100 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1570


  Reply # 1251127 4-Mar-2015 16:23
Send private message

Speculation that he could be up for $2m !!!

I hope someone helps him manage that. A fool and his money are soon parted... i hope he uses it to get his life sorted.




Always be yourself, unless you can be Batman, then always be the Batman



3 posts

Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 1251457 5-Mar-2015 02:14
Send private message

Hmmm.  One main issue, as I see it.  Like most professions, both the judiciary and the police dislike having to admit they made a mistake, and mistakes always happen.

The difficulty in NZ (since the abolition of the Privy Council access) is that the judiciary have to review other judicial decisions and the police generally have to review police actions.

As we are also a very small country population wise, the members of both the police and especially the judiciary are small and there is always a bias (even if only subconciously) to not making your colleagues and/or friends look bad.

Thus we seem to struggle to effectively correct internal mistakes using internal review channels.

I'm amazed that no-one has yet brought up the Peter Ellis case - another instance where it seems likely an injustice was done, but he served his time, lost most of his life and no-one in government seems to care enough to reopen the issue.

Just my thoughts anyway

1 | 2 
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.