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  Reply # 1302718 12-May-2015 13:05
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Inphinity:
Aunty:Yes she has learnt her lesson regarding this so no need to bleat on about the fact she paid cash up front with no receipt as that isn't the issue and the store don't even deny this. The issue is she dropped something off working and now it is not working and they are saying too bad. They still replaced the screen which is why it was there so can keep the money if they want as they did the job - they just damaged it to beyond it being able to work which they admit but say that's too bad for her. The very original question if you read it without skimming it is can they do that or do we have a leg to stand on?


That may very well be the issue, in fact. Great she's learned the lesson, but after the fact it makes it much harder for any claim.

If you had, for example, a job sheet/receipt of some sort saying you'd dropped the device off in working order with a broken screen only, you'd have an easy claim. You don't, and while the shop may say to you while you're standing there that is what's happened, will they say that in front of a disputes tribunal hearing?

You can try it, and see, but if they stand there and say "It was dropped off to fix a broken screen, but we determined there was more damage than that. We replaced the screen anyway as directed but we don't do the necessary repairs to address the other damage as it is beyond the originally agreed screen replacement service." what are you going to do?

You could try to get something in writing, or recorded in some other way, from them, acknowledging fault, to have a solid claim. If not, you can try it anyway, and they may just cave and stump up something in exchange for not being dragged through a tribunal, but it could become a crap shoot. Typically disputes tribunals and similar favour the consumer, but they generally require some semblence of evidence beyond he-said-she-said. However, there have been instances where that's enough. So, yes, you have a leg to stand on, but it's a bit of a wobbly leg at the moment.


In the tribunal, the Judge will ask, was it going when you took it in? Then will ask the mall shopowner, did you fix the screen? Was the iPad working when you finiahed it? No? So, it became broken in your care? Do you have a visible term that constitutes that you are not liable for any damage caused during repairs (as the devices are often glued and not designed to be worked on) No? Case closed in favour of the plaintiff. Even if the mall shop owner said they didnt break it, they would be asked, did you not test it? If there was some evidence, and some admisson of the tansacrtion from the Mall shop owner, the questiong may expose gaps that my give enough negativity about the mall shop owner and positivity about the consumer. It would a Judge Judy affair "I don't believe you" !

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  Reply # 1302817 12-May-2015 14:36
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If the kiosk is saying that additional damage was done to the iPad while it was in their care, but "too bad" then you definitely have recourse under the CGA, and you may also have some grounds due to the length of time this has taken to resolve. Here are some excerpts from a Consumer Affairs pamphlet(bits in bold might be relevant):

 

1) Reasonable care and skill
This means that any work done for you must be at least as good as the work of a capable person with average skills and experience in that type of work. ... Reasonable skill is about the trader applying their technical knowledge to do the job you have asked of them. This is different from taking reasonable care - e.g. if the painter you hired to paint your house knocks over a can of paint which spills over your driveway, the painter has not taken reasonable care.
...
2) Fit for particular purpose
After you have told the service provider what service you want from them, and they accept the job, they must make sure you get what you want. ... For example, Liz asks the dry-cleaner to try to remove an old mayonnaise stain from her jacket. The cleaner tells Liz that the stain has been there a while and can’t come out without taking colour out of the jacket. Liz, who likes to get her own way and won't take no for an answer, insists on the work being carried out. The dry-cleaner must still take reasonable care and skill, but may not be responsible if the jacket colour was changed, as Liz was told this could happen. But if the dry-cleaner causes another problem, such as the buttons melting, the cleaner may be held responsible for that problem.
...
3) Completed within a reasonable time
Where you and the service provider have not agreed on a time when the job must be finished, the service provider must complete the job within a reasonable time. "Reasonable" time is judged on the time it takes a competent person who works in that type of job to complete the task.

 


However, as you have no receipt or job sheet, you have no proof of what the repairer agreed to do, or when the iPad was originally dropped off. If you took them to the tribunal and they argued that you brought it in a month ago and it wasn't working at all but they agreed to try replacing the broken screen for you, it will just become "he said, she said" and will likely be dismissed.

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1302822 12-May-2015 14:56
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Aunty: Thank you to the person that copied my post to here as all help is appreciated.
My niece was given this iPad a few years ago as a Christmas present and no no other care or Warrenty would have been purchased. Yes every thing in my original post is word for word correct and I only got involved last night as my niece is very independent and tried her best to sort this. She is a high school student with a part time job in the same mall and trusted these people. Why shouldn't she? She's a kid!! This place has offered to get the iPad back for us but no refund as they replaced the screen which is why it was dropped off. My question is do we have a leg to stand on that the iPad went in working but had a cracked screen and now is not working and beyond repair because they tell me the Mother board was damaged when removing the screen. I am no IT person so don't even know if it's possible for the mother board to be damaged that way but the short of it is this girl has been mucked around for 3 months, works part time after school to say her way through life and trusted this store and did as asked which was to say up front. Yes she has learnt her lesson regarding this so no need to bleat on about the fact she paid cash up front with no receipt as that isn't the issue and the store don't even deny this. The issue is she dropped something off working and now it is not working and they are saying too bad. They still replaced the screen which is why it was there so can keep the money if they want as they did the job - they just damaged it to beyond it being able to work which they admit but say that's too bad for her. The very original question if you read it without skimming it is can they do that or do we have a leg to stand on?


My advice...

Get a voice recorder app on your/niece's phone, test it for standard conversation, then go down and record them not disputing spoken facts (they have your money, they have your iPad, it was working when they got it), transcribe it onto a Disputes Tribunal form (keep the original recording if needed), show them the completed form and ask them if they'd like to resolve 'today', if they don't file the paperwork + fee.

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  Reply # 1302826 12-May-2015 15:03
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mrtoken: 
If they say they will just send their lawyer remind them that they can't as no lawyers allowed.






Considering the cost of a lawyer vs the low cost of a second hand ipad, that is very unlikely.

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  Reply # 1302842 12-May-2015 15:18
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nigelj:
Aunty: Thank you to the person that copied my post to here as all help is appreciated.
My niece was given this iPad a few years ago as a Christmas present and no no other care or Warrenty would have been purchased. Yes every thing in my original post is word for word correct and I only got involved last night as my niece is very independent and tried her best to sort this. She is a high school student with a part time job in the same mall and trusted these people. Why shouldn't she? She's a kid!! This place has offered to get the iPad back for us but no refund as they replaced the screen which is why it was dropped off. My question is do we have a leg to stand on that the iPad went in working but had a cracked screen and now is not working and beyond repair because they tell me the Mother board was damaged when removing the screen. I am no IT person so don't even know if it's possible for the mother board to be damaged that way but the short of it is this girl has been mucked around for 3 months, works part time after school to say her way through life and trusted this store and did as asked which was to say up front. Yes she has learnt her lesson regarding this so no need to bleat on about the fact she paid cash up front with no receipt as that isn't the issue and the store don't even deny this. The issue is she dropped something off working and now it is not working and they are saying too bad. They still replaced the screen which is why it was there so can keep the money if they want as they did the job - they just damaged it to beyond it being able to work which they admit but say that's too bad for her. The very original question if you read it without skimming it is can they do that or do we have a leg to stand on?


My advice...

Get a voice recorder app on your/niece's phone, test it for standard conversation, then go down and record them not disputing spoken facts (they have your money, they have your iPad, it was working when they got it), transcribe it onto a Disputes Tribunal form (keep the original recording if needed), show them the completed form and ask them if they'd like to resolve 'today', if they don't file the paperwork + fee.


I dont think you can do that without their permission or awareness.  

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  Reply # 1302843 12-May-2015 15:22
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tdgeek:
nigelj:
Aunty: Thank you to the person that copied my post to here as all help is appreciated.
My niece was given this iPad a few years ago as a Christmas present and no no other care or Warrenty would have been purchased. Yes every thing in my original post is word for word correct and I only got involved last night as my niece is very independent and tried her best to sort this. She is a high school student with a part time job in the same mall and trusted these people. Why shouldn't she? She's a kid!! This place has offered to get the iPad back for us but no refund as they replaced the screen which is why it was dropped off. My question is do we have a leg to stand on that the iPad went in working but had a cracked screen and now is not working and beyond repair because they tell me the Mother board was damaged when removing the screen. I am no IT person so don't even know if it's possible for the mother board to be damaged that way but the short of it is this girl has been mucked around for 3 months, works part time after school to say her way through life and trusted this store and did as asked which was to say up front. Yes she has learnt her lesson regarding this so no need to bleat on about the fact she paid cash up front with no receipt as that isn't the issue and the store don't even deny this. The issue is she dropped something off working and now it is not working and they are saying too bad. They still replaced the screen which is why it was there so can keep the money if they want as they did the job - they just damaged it to beyond it being able to work which they admit but say that's too bad for her. The very original question if you read it without skimming it is can they do that or do we have a leg to stand on?


My advice...

Get a voice recorder app on your/niece's phone, test it for standard conversation, then go down and record them not disputing spoken facts (they have your money, they have your iPad, it was working when they got it), transcribe it onto a Disputes Tribunal form (keep the original recording if needed), show them the completed form and ask them if they'd like to resolve 'today', if they don't file the paperwork + fee.


I dont think you can do that without their permission or awareness.  

I think only one party in a conversation has to be aware of the recording. IANAL though.

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  Reply # 1302845 12-May-2015 15:24
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trig42:
tdgeek:
nigelj:
Aunty: Thank you to the person that copied my post to here as all help is appreciated.
My niece was given this iPad a few years ago as a Christmas present and no no other care or Warrenty would have been purchased. Yes every thing in my original post is word for word correct and I only got involved last night as my niece is very independent and tried her best to sort this. She is a high school student with a part time job in the same mall and trusted these people. Why shouldn't she? She's a kid!! This place has offered to get the iPad back for us but no refund as they replaced the screen which is why it was dropped off. My question is do we have a leg to stand on that the iPad went in working but had a cracked screen and now is not working and beyond repair because they tell me the Mother board was damaged when removing the screen. I am no IT person so don't even know if it's possible for the mother board to be damaged that way but the short of it is this girl has been mucked around for 3 months, works part time after school to say her way through life and trusted this store and did as asked which was to say up front. Yes she has learnt her lesson regarding this so no need to bleat on about the fact she paid cash up front with no receipt as that isn't the issue and the store don't even deny this. The issue is she dropped something off working and now it is not working and they are saying too bad. They still replaced the screen which is why it was there so can keep the money if they want as they did the job - they just damaged it to beyond it being able to work which they admit but say that's too bad for her. The very original question if you read it without skimming it is can they do that or do we have a leg to stand on?


My advice...

Get a voice recorder app on your/niece's phone, test it for standard conversation, then go down and record them not disputing spoken facts (they have your money, they have your iPad, it was working when they got it), transcribe it onto a Disputes Tribunal form (keep the original recording if needed), show them the completed form and ask them if they'd like to resolve 'today', if they don't file the paperwork + fee.


I dont think you can do that without their permission or awareness.  

I think only one party in a conversation has to be aware of the recording. IANAL though.


I wanted to do this to show the court what my ex was like, not allowed, unless she gave permission. I guess its entrapment


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  Reply # 1302933 12-May-2015 16:13
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trig42:
tdgeek:
nigelj:
My advice...

Get a voice recorder app on your/niece's phone, test it for standard conversation, then go down and record them not disputing spoken facts (they have your money, they have your iPad, it was working when they got it), transcribe it onto a Disputes Tribunal form (keep the original recording if needed), show them the completed form and ask them if they'd like to resolve 'today', if they don't file the paperwork + fee.


I dont think you can do that without their permission or awareness.  

I think only one party in a conversation has to be aware of the recording. IANAL though.


That's correct... in the state of Illinois, at least! (just to prove I know my Good Wife facts). I don't think it's the same in NZ, however...

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  Reply # 1302977 12-May-2015 16:50
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jonathan18:
trig42:
tdgeek:
nigelj:
My advice...

Get a voice recorder app on your/niece's phone, test it for standard conversation, then go down and record them not disputing spoken facts (they have your money, they have your iPad, it was working when they got it), transcribe it onto a Disputes Tribunal form (keep the original recording if needed), show them the completed form and ask them if they'd like to resolve 'today', if they don't file the paperwork + fee.


I dont think you can do that without their permission or awareness.  

I think only one party in a conversation has to be aware of the recording. IANAL though.


That's correct... in the state of Illinois, at least! (just to prove I know my Good Wife facts). I don't think it's the same in NZ, however...


So, instead of it being a secret, entrapping, covert recording, the one party aware of it will be the recorder? 

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  Reply # 1302983 12-May-2015 17:00
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If you are party to a conversation in NZ, you can generally legally record it

 

 

 

http://www.lawspot.org.nz/privacy/can-i-surreptitiously-record-a-conversation-if-i-want-proof-of



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  Reply # 1303062 12-May-2015 19:11
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Thanks everyone for all the opinions and input.

I've shared a link to this thread with the lady who requested the advice originally she extends her thanks to all here for taking the time to reply. She will update our FB page as to the outcome and I will post here for those interested.

Thanks again geeks!

Mr Snotty
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  Reply # 1303222 13-May-2015 00:29
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Just thought I'd chuck in my 2c.

I took an iPhone into iCell in Christchurch with a smashed screen - I was using this (with the smashed screen) for a day beforehand and was fully tested to be working before I took it in.

I booked it in for repair - they didn't ask me for anything upfront and gave me a job sheet with what needed to be done. Since this was a simple screen repair I left the phone with them for a couple of hours and picked it up later, it was working as good as gold. I then paid them the money and went on my merry way.

Shoved it on charge that night - was fine, it did the standard "I am an iPhone charging" thing and went to bed, in the morning the phone was on 1% charge (was on 10% when I shoved it on charge) so ugh, didn't charge. I then tried another lightning cable and same thing didn't charge.

Took it back, the guy was very understanding and left it with him. I didn't at all pressure him to get it fixed ASAP and left it with him for 24hrs, I could tell he was thankful for this. He found the fault and fixed it (broken charge connector) and handed it back to me fully charged as proof it was working, wouldn't even accept a box of beers for fixing it for me either.

This is just an example of how a repair company should operate - they should always charge once the job is completed and leave it as that. This is why I trust iCell and would always go back (and recommend others to use them too down in Christchurch) since they've developed a good name for themselves.




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