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  Reply # 1308683 20-May-2015 17:51
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The now Commenwealth flags at least have indigenous influence.




Mike
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  Reply # 1308685 20-May-2015 17:54
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nathan: yes, change it

this says it all

Will we be the last to change?

Will we be the last to change?


Most of these new designs are a huge improvement on the old flags left over from the days of The British Empire.

Time to move on.






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  Reply # 1308696 20-May-2015 17:59
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My year 4/5 class did some research into changing the flag.  They spoke to family members and asked if we should change the flag, and why or why not.  Our result was about 90% in favour of keeping the current flag.  I was quite surprised - I thought the result would be the dead opposite.  Main reason people gave was they could see no particular need for change, as well as this is the flag that has historically represented us, and our soldiers for under it.

Personally I'm not totally opposed to change, but I think the silver fern and the colour black are particularly representative of our sports achievements, and we should choose something that shows another aspect of NZ.

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  Reply # 1308705 20-May-2015 18:11
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cebo: My year 4/5 class did some research into changing the flag.  They spoke to family members and asked if we should change the flag, and why or why not.  Our result was about 90% in favour of keeping the current flag.  I was quite surprised - I thought the result would be the dead opposite.  Main reason people gave was they could see no particular need for change, as well as this is the flag that has historically represented us, and our soldiers for under it.

Personally I'm not totally opposed to change, but I think the silver fern and the colour black are particularly representative of our sports achievements, and we should choose something that shows another aspect of NZ.


interesting result but I think people use the "fighting for the flag" too much and I don't believe they did. I've never seen action but from my 22 years involved in military the flags the guys cherished were their regimental colours. From the old soldiers I talked to they fought for their mates and their country, not a flag, even more so after the Great War.

For me this flag does not represent NZ now.




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  Reply # 1308706 20-May-2015 18:14
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Yes! Change it.

 - The Union Jack element isn't a major part of what New Zealand is anymore.

 - If Scotland ever leave the UK, there won't be a Union Jack anyway.

  - A significant number of NZers see the Union Jack as a negative thing.

 - Most of the World (as well as many NZers and Aussies) can't tell the difference between the New Zealand and Australian flags.

 - The flag should say something about NZ as a country now.

The only arguments I have heard against it.

 - Cost. Pretty much a counter argument to anything.

 - Don't like change. Not a good counter argument ever.

 - People fought for and died for the flag. Also, not a good argument. 'Fighting for the flag' is only a metaphor. It is totally ridiculous to fight and kill people over a piece of cloth. I have talked to people (when they were alive) about fighting in the wars. Mostly, it was about 'doing their bit', 'Protecting their family, friends, NZ' etc.. No one mentioned their overwhelming liking for the NZ flag design.

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  Reply # 1308709 20-May-2015 18:19
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I noticed if you type in NZ flag into google, there is a NZ government paid google ad to the website.  So some of that money is going to Google. Big waste of money IMO, as there isn't a decent design that has been offered as an alternative. I think a koru and stars are the most appropriate symbols to be used. The stars link to the old flag, and the koru is recognised as one of NZs main symbols  and links to maori design, and I think is more appropriate than a fern.

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  Reply # 1308710 20-May-2015 18:19
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old3eyes: The current one ... looks like the Australian one.


Search your feelings, old3eyes. You know it to be true.




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  Reply # 1308713 20-May-2015 18:22
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nathan: The 'People's Republic of New Zealand'

not far wrong there the way things going.
I like our present flag. Anyone says change because too close to Australian flag then get Aussie to change theirs as we had ours approx 40 years before they made theirs.  Our Uncles and fathers fought for our flag.  However if the vote is for change there are some decent designs put forward.  But dont change just for change sake




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  Reply # 1308716 20-May-2015 18:28
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jeffnz:
cebo: My year 4/5 class did some research into changing the flag.  They spoke to family members and asked if we should change the flag, and why or why not.  Our result was about 90% in favour of keeping the current flag.  I was quite surprised - I thought the result would be the dead opposite.  Main reason people gave was they could see no particular need for change, as well as this is the flag that has historically represented us, and our soldiers for under it.

Personally I'm not totally opposed to change, but I think the silver fern and the colour black are particularly representative of our sports achievements, and we should choose something that shows another aspect of NZ.


interesting result but I think people use the "fighting for the flag" too much and I don't believe they did. I've never seen action but from my 22 years involved in military the flags the guys cherished were their regimental colours. From the old soldiers I talked to they fought for their mates and their country, not a flag, even more so after the Great War.

For me this flag does not represent NZ now.


Yep they wear their colours with pride. The Red Diamond is special. My sons tell me they fought for people not flags.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


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  Reply # 1308729 20-May-2015 18:41
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$25m is a pittance for ANYTHING that allows the entire country to have a say. There ARE more important things to spend the money on, but there is also not a lot of harm in exploring it. Last year support for change was larger. If it fails, don't look at it as a waste of money, look at it as a chance to have some say in our identity you may never get the chance to do again. 

I am not worried either way, but if it changes the silver fern and some stars would be good by me. 

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  Reply # 1308731 20-May-2015 18:44
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johnr: What a waste of $$$


This.




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  Reply # 1308745 20-May-2015 19:07
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JWR:
Yes! Change it.

 - The Union Jack element isn't a major part of what New Zealand is anymore.

 - If Scotland ever leave the UK, there won't be a Union Jack anyway.

  - A significant number of NZers see the Union Jack as a negative thing.

 - Most of the World (as well as many NZers and Aussies) can't tell the difference between the New Zealand and Australian flags.

 - The flag should say something about NZ as a country now.



+1

New Zealand and Australia are both still using recycled British flags, designed long ago when The Sun Never Set On The Empire.

The Empire is now of historical interest only.

I hope that Australia and NZ both get their own flags soon.

[Disclaimer: I am a first-generation Australian who has lived in NZ for 30 years. Both of my parents were English]




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  Reply # 1308748 20-May-2015 19:14
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I recall in form 2, our teacher, who was only in her second year of teaching, decided to have a flag debate. The class was firmly against any change, and she unsuccessfully argued her case for a horrid design she favoured. She was clearly biased towards a design that represented to her own ethnic background or culture, not ours. In the end she left the room crying. We had to write apology letters, but there was no way I was going to apologise for not respecting her opinion, given she was the one trying to force her beliefs on us.

In case there is any doubt, most definitely NO!

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  Reply # 1308749 20-May-2015 19:15
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Whatever it is changed to, it has to simple and iconic, and not date. Probably would be best to be two tone. I think it needs some ties to the old flag. The best and most iconic flags are the simple ones. eg Canada, Japan. UK's is also good, but made up of a combination of more simple flags.

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  Reply # 1308753 20-May-2015 19:21
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SirHumphreyAppleby: I recall in form 2, our teacher, who was only in her second year of teaching, decided to have a flag debate. The class was firmly against any change, and she unsuccessfully argued her case for a horrid design she favoured. She was clearly biased towards a design that represented to her own ethnic background or culture, not ours. In the end she left the room crying. We had to write apology letters, but there was no way I was going to apologise for not respecting her opinion, given she was the one trying to force her beliefs on us.

In case there is any doubt, most definitely NO!


This is exactly why I object to the existing colonial flags - they represent someone else's ethnic background and culture, not ours.




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