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  # 1319199 8-Jun-2015 10:36
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timmmay: 

The half hourly usage shows that on Thursday I used 3.16 units between 7am and 5pm, and on Friday I use 2.95 units.

Note that because we have showers at 6am and 6pm the water heater has finished by 7am so it's just maintaining temperature during the day. I only see small blips, plus the constant ticking over of things like the fridge. I can see 4-5 units used between 6 and 7am. Most of our power use is 6-7am and 6-10pm.



Thanks for those readings, thats really usefull . Thanks a lot !!


 Tells me that standby should be averaging 2-3kwh , whereas I am now averaging around 20kwh .


If you dont mind , while you are here , can you also check what is the power consumtion when everyone is sleeping ( ie again, no one is using hot water ) between hrs of 10/11pm to 6am morning.


This will again cement my findings that standby power usage should be in the 2-3 kwh range. 

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  # 1319200 8-Jun-2015 10:36
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When you turned the cylinder off, was the water hot in the morning?




Location: Dunedin

 


 
 
 
 




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  # 1319204 8-Jun-2015 10:39
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andrewNZ: When you turned the cylinder off, was the water hot in the morning?



When i turned the cylinder off , I took the reading, and then i slept. Then i woke up, took the reading, and then turned it on .


Then, when i went to tap, the water was in between cold - luke warm ( it wasnt that cold, but i wouldnt call it luke warm too, so somewere in the middle ) 



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  # 1319211 8-Jun-2015 10:41
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Aredwood: As Timmay said you have a water leak. Most likely from the cylinder vent pipe on the roof. Or if you don't have an open vent pipe. There will be a relief valve that will be constantly discharging hot water. And if you are unlucky you will have a copper pipe that is cast into a concrete floor slab that has a leak. If this is the problem best long term fix is to abandon the leaking pipe and install a whole new one.



Thanks, do you think its worth bringing in a plumber and get it checked before i go about changing the whole cylinder ? whats your take on it.

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  # 1319216 8-Jun-2015 10:49
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1965 is pretty old, it's probably poorly insulated. I have a 2 year old cylinder, and I've read you get benefits even from insulating them. Do you have it well wrapped? Your observation about the water being cool in the morning supports this - if my cylinder was off for 8 hours it would probably still be very hot.



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  # 1319220 8-Jun-2015 10:51
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timmmay: 1965 is pretty old, it's probably poorly insulated. I have a 2 year old cylinder, and I've read you get benefits even from insulating them. Do you have it well wrapped?



the cylinder just sits inside a cupboard which goes upto my shoulder height. There is no insulation on the cylinder as such, but 2 yrs back i got full insulation done top and bottom for the whole house.


so no wrapping for the hot water cylinder as such . 

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  # 1319224 8-Jun-2015 10:56
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sep11guy: Thanks for those readings, thats really usefull . Thanks a lot !!  Tells me that standby should be averaging 2-3kwh , whereas I am now averaging around 20kwh . If you dont mind , while you are here , can you also check what is the power consumtion when everyone is sleeping ( ie again, no one is using hot water ) between hrs of 10/11pm to 6am morning. This will again cement my findings that standby power usage should be in the 2-3 kwh range. 


See, half hourly data is useful! I'm with Flick Electric, incidentally saving about 40% on power because of great winter rates and using some things off peak - fortunately using delay settings. My readings will be different from yours, because for example we have the dishwasher and clothes drier run at 3am when power prices are the lowest - I typically pay 6c/kwh at 3am. I can see after showers that power use does spike.

Ignoring peaks where clothes drier or dishwasher are in use we use 0.25 units per hour overnight in winter. That would add up to around 2kwh of power in an 8 hour period while we're sleeping. Key power users will be the oil heater in the bedroom (probably the biggest use), bathroom under floor heating, fridge, and maybe a little bit from the hot water cylinder keeping heat up - but I suspect that is very low.

Our hot water cylinder is new, as I said, with a wrap. It's up in the ceiling cavity which is relatively cold. We put it there to get more cupboard space in the renovated bathroom.

 
 
 
 


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  # 1319226 8-Jun-2015 10:57
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sep11guy:
timmmay: 1965 is pretty old, it's probably poorly insulated. I have a 2 year old cylinder, and I've read you get benefits even from insulating them. Do you have it well wrapped?



the cylinder just sits inside a cupboard which goes upto my shoulder height. There is no insulation on the cylinder as such, but 2 yrs back i got full insulation done top and bottom for the whole house.


so no wrapping for the hot water cylinder as such . 


Strongly suggest you need to wrap your hot water cylinder. If it's hot or even warm to touch it's throwing away heat. Even better replace it with a mains pressure cylinder (HUGE upgrade that I did a couple of years ago) and also do the wrap. It should help your power bill.

I don't think that's your main problem, to throw away 10kwh of power in a day/night is huge. It's probably the thermostat still not working, hot water will be pouring out the overflow pipe.



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  # 1319230 8-Jun-2015 11:00
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timmmay: 

Ignoring peaks where clothes drier or dishwasher are in use we use 0.25 units per hour overnight in winter. That would add up to around 2kwh of power in an 8 hour period while we're sleeping. Key power users will be the oil heater in the bedroom (probably the biggest use), bathroom under floor heating, fridge, and maybe a little bit from the hot water cylinder keeping heat up - but I suspect that is very low.

.


Thanks a lot again, thats good to know. Cause as i said, my night time consumtion is now approx 9-10 ( previously 15kwh before i changed thermostat ) , so your readings tell me I am still consuming 5 times over what needs to be. 



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  # 1319232 8-Jun-2015 11:02
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timmmay:

Strongly suggest you need to wrap your hot water cylinder. If it's hot or even warm to touch it's throwing away heat. Even better replace it with a mains pressure cylinder (HUGE upgrade that I did a couple of years ago) and also do the wrap. It should help your power bill.

I don't think that's your main problem, to throw away 10kwh of power in a day/night is huge. It's probably the thermostat still not working, hot water will be pouring out the overflow pipe.



Good suggestion . 


Now i just want to know is , as few people above have kinda touched upon that there could be a leak . would it be worth getting in a plumber first to check out the leak ? 


I am just thinking if this is something which can be easily detected / fixed. 

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  # 1319233 8-Jun-2015 11:07
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Using that much power strongly suggests it's heating water which you're not using, as if it's just throwing out that much extra heat the area around it would be noticeably warm. This extra water must go somewhere - leaking out a tap, leaking under the house, or overflowing through the overflow pipe on the roof. As I suggested earlier get up on the roof and see if there's evidence of recent hot water leaks. Also go under the house, if applicable, to see if a pipe's leaking. If you can't find a leak then I would consider whether the lack of insulation is causing the power usage, but given it's a recent change I doubt it.

Not sure if a plumber can help, unless you don't want to go on the roof. It could be a very slow trickle up there, and it could be constantly happen or periodic, only happening under certain conditions. If the pipe itself is hot that's another piece of information.

If you had power monitoring and could see when it was using power that could be interesting, it could suggest a cause. You'd need a smart meter or a lot of patience to do that manually.



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  # 1319247 8-Jun-2015 11:18
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timmmay: Using that much power strongly suggests it's heating water which you're not using, as if it's just throwing out that much extra heat the area around it would be noticeably warm. This extra water must go somewhere - leaking out a tap, leaking under the house, or overflowing through the overflow pipe on the roof. As I suggested earlier get up on the roof and see if there's evidence of recent hot water leaks. Also go under the house, if applicable, to see if a pipe's leaking. If you can't find a leak then I would consider whether the lack of insulation is causing the power usage, but given it's a recent change I doubt it.

Not sure if a plumber can help, unless you don't want to go on the roof. It could be a very slow trickle up there, and it could be constantly happen or periodic, only happening under certain conditions. If the pipe itself is hot that's another piece of information.

If you had power monitoring and could see when it was using power that could be interesting, it could suggest a cause. You'd need a smart meter or a lot of patience to do that manually.



Hmmmmm . thanks for your help. 


Its just that I am not that diy inclined ( i cannot tell if something is leaking or not unless like its a tap ;) ) , so i have a high chance of not correctly diagnosing a leak . 


I hardly have tools on me, so i dont think i could get myself up the roof.  


But reading all your comments I have a feeling that there could be a chance of a leak somewere. I dont mind to bring a plumber in , but i just want to know if this is the right way to go . or if there is any other specialist ( for eg block in a drain : you get a drain blocker specialist ) who will come in, and pin point the issue. 


Thanks a lot for all your help, you have been really good help :) 

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  # 1319249 8-Jun-2015 11:22
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It should be simple enough - go onto roof, feel if overflow pipe is hot, observe if water is running out. You can tell if water is running out because the pipe will be wet ;) It can also leave marks/track on the roof, so if you clean them off you can go back the next day and check again.

A plumber would be the right person to look into this if you don't want to go on the roof. People regularly fall off roofs and hurt themselves, so leave it to the pro if you like. They should use safety gear, but they won't - even the roofers that replaced my roof just wandered up. I had a painter fall off the roof and hurt himself once - idiot.



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  # 1319252 8-Jun-2015 11:24
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timmmay: It should be simple enough - go onto roof, feel if overflow pipe is hot, observe if water is running out. You can tell if water is running out because the pipe will be wet ;) It can also leave marks/track on the roof, so if you clean them off you can go back the next day and check again.

A plumber would be the right person to look into this if you don't want to go on the roof. People regularly fall off roofs and hurt themselves, so leave it to the pro if you like. They should use safety gear, but they won't - even the roofers that replaced my roof just wandered up. I had a painter fall off the roof and hurt himself once - idiot.



Thanks a lot, I will start talking to a few plumbers and see who can look into this. 

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  # 1319279 8-Jun-2015 11:38
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andrewNZ:
BTR: I am guessing that by the date of your HWC thats it will be low pressure, have a look at the overflow pipe on the roof and male sure water isn't shooting out, if so the temp thermostat isn't working. I know you have replaced it but the replacement could be faulty.

Based on the age of your cylinder I would replace it, with a brand new cylinder. That way you have something thats more energy efficient because its better insulated and its internals are new.


I replaced my old 180L low pressure HWC with a brand new 300L main pressure cylinder 3-4 years ago and my power bills dropped. 

I'm pretty sure they'd know if the cylinder was boiling, and they've stated the usage went down after the thermostat was changed.

That's also not the only reason for water to be coming out the top. If the Ajax valve is dodgy, there may be a small, barely noticable at a distance, amount of water overflowing. This would significantly increase the amount of power used.


This is what happened to me. Had a few significantly higher power bills (about 3-4x normal usage) and found that the cause was a constant stream of water coming from the overflow pipe (not sure if it was the ajax valve as described above). It was essentially the same as having a hot tap on 24/7. After getting this fixed the usage went back to normal so I imagine your issue may be similar.

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