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  # 1327158 18-Jun-2015 11:28
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MikeB4: 
Years as an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff has shown me we need initiatives like this and more to break the cycle. The community at large has everything to gain from such initiatives.


As you yourself have pointed out, the police are demanding people get a license within 2 months, or pay a $400 fine. Whilst this is very reasonable, if the reason you don't have a license is that you can't afford it, being issued a ticket doesn't magically make it affordable. They are not breaking any cycle caused by the inability to pay for a driver's license.

They are breaking a cycle of not having a license because you simply can't be f***ed getting one.




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  # 1327161 18-Jun-2015 11:33
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SaltyNZ:
MikeB4: 
Years as an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff has shown me we need initiatives like this and more to break the cycle. The community at large has everything to gain from such initiatives.


As you yourself have pointed out, the police are demanding people get a license within 2 months, or pay a $400 fine. Whilst this is very reasonable, if the reason you don't have a license is that you can't afford it, being issued a ticket doesn't magically make it affordable. They are not breaking any cycle caused by the inability to pay for a driver's license.

They are breaking a cycle of not having a license because you simply can't be f***ed getting one.


The license training etc is being handled by Iwi under a Whanau Ora initiative.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  # 1327166 18-Jun-2015 11:37
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MikeB4: 
The license training etc is being handled by Iwi under a Whanau Ora initiative.


...So, you're saying that Maori people can get licenses taken care of already if they can't afford it on their own? Well, that's that excuse gone then. What's next?




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  # 1327171 18-Jun-2015 11:41
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MikeB4:
SaltyNZ:
MikeB4: 
Years as an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff has shown me we need initiatives like this and more to break the cycle. The community at large has everything to gain from such initiatives.


As you yourself have pointed out, the police are demanding people get a license within 2 months, or pay a $400 fine. Whilst this is very reasonable, if the reason you don't have a license is that you can't afford it, being issued a ticket doesn't magically make it affordable. They are not breaking any cycle caused by the inability to pay for a driver's license.

They are breaking a cycle of not having a license because you simply can't be f***ed getting one.


The license training etc is being handled by Iwi under a Whanau Ora initiative.


Fair enough. If this is the case then it should be made available BEFORE people are caught driving illegally.




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  # 1327177 18-Jun-2015 11:48
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It must be so easy with rose coloured glasses.

Of course you are right everyone in a bad situation are lazy doing it on purpose, there is no hardship, there is no poverty, there is only intentional unemployment.  




Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


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  # 1327188 18-Jun-2015 11:54
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SaltyNZ:
MikeB4: 
The license training etc is being handled by Iwi under a Whanau Ora initiative.


...So, you're saying that Maori people can get licenses taken care of already if they can't afford it on their own? Well, that's that excuse gone then. What's next?


Next is the public education program to drive awareness of this opportunity.

Seems the media and police are already all over this!

Good job.





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  # 1327193 18-Jun-2015 11:57
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MikeB4: It must be so easy with rose coloured glasses.

Of course you are right everyone in a bad situation are lazy doing it on purpose, there is no hardship, there is no poverty, there is only intentional unemployment.  


Well, if, as you say, there is already a way to get all the assistance you need, then I'm not sure what else we can do, other than issue tickets. Can non-Maori avail themselves of Whanau Ora assistance? Double sucks to be them; they don't get an automatic offer of compliance notice, and they don't have someone offering to help them out.




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  # 1327198 18-Jun-2015 12:05
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SaltyNZ:
Well, if, as you say, there is already a way to get all the assistance you need, then I'm not sure what else we can do, other than issue tickets. Can non-Maori avail themselves of Whanau Ora assistance? Double sucks to be them; they don't get an automatic offer of compliance notice, and they don't have someone offering to help them out.


My grand father build a mountain road that paved the way for a multi million dollar ski field while running the local bakery.
My father built a dairy company that became the second largest south of the equator.
I'm only 45, so give me a change... ;)

But the point is that many 'white' people, like me, are from families that know how to work the systems to get ahead.

The same can't be said for these folk who live in South Auckland.

Can we really feel sorry for a culture where workers get a $400 dollar hair straightener in their offices?





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  # 1327205 18-Jun-2015 12:13
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Geektastic: I wonder if so many people would be supportive if the licence laws being ignored were those relating to piloting aircraft....


(a) the road license laws are not being ignored.

(b) some people break the license laws relating to piloting aircraft too (e.g. Lance Hopping did not have a valid medical when the balloon crashed in the Wairarapa. Not that having a valid medical would have made any difference)


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  # 1327231 18-Jun-2015 12:36
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DonGould: 
Driving isn't a privilege, it's a right.


Huh?

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  # 1327234 18-Jun-2015 12:39
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clevedon:
DonGould: 
Driving isn't a privilege, it's a right.


Huh?


Everyone in New Zealand has the right to learn to drive.  It's not a privilege that you get for being good.  It's a right you have.  The same as everyone has the right to vote. 




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  # 1327238 18-Jun-2015 12:47
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DonGould:
clevedon:
DonGould: 
Driving isn't a privilege, it's a right.


Huh?


Everyone in New Zealand has the right to learn to drive.  It's not a privilege that you get for being good.  It's a right you have.  The same as everyone has the right to vote. 


You don't have to pass a test to vote, so yes that is a right.

Driving is a different matter, everyone has a right to learn to drive - not the right to continue to drive without a valid licence.

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  # 1327245 18-Jun-2015 12:59
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DonGould:  It's not a privilege that you get for being good.  


It is a privilege you get for being good. One that can - and should - be taken away if you're not. If you speed, drive drunk or stoned... etc. You never have a right to do something inherently dangerous to others. You have a right to train for it, but not to do it until you can prove that you are competent enough not kill people accidentally. Or, to put it another way, my right not to be killed or injured by someone who either has an unsafe vehicle and/or isn't a safe enough driver to get a license trumps their right to drive.

I'm pretty libertarian, generally speaking, and I really don't like the government poking its nose into people's private lives. But the rules that restrict potentially dangerous activities to those who have shown a minimum level of competence - and believe me, getting a driver's license really is the bare minimum level of competence, judging by half the drivers on the road - isn't something you can reasonably argue against.




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  # 1327250 18-Jun-2015 13:03
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clevedon: You don't have to pass a test to vote, so yes that is a right.


You do have to enroll.  A million people didn't vote last election.  How many just weren't enrolled.  Does that mean those people didn't have the right to vote?  No of course it doesn't.  They did.  Even on election day you can get on the role.


clevedon: Driving is a different matter, everyone has a right to learn to drive - not the right to continue to drive without a valid licence.


But that's still not a privilege. 

Getting a knight hood is a privilege.  You have to be really good at something for the community and then we might give you one.  If you break the law after you get it then it's likely they'll take it off you.

Driving is a simple test that follows some fairly simple teaching.  If you break the law, the worst that happens is that we suspend your right for a short time and tell you that you have to sit the tests again before you can drive again.  But when you turn up to be retested they don't tell you 'no because you've been bad'.






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  # 1327258 18-Jun-2015 13:11
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DonGould:
clevedon: You don't have to pass a test to vote, so yes that is a right.


You do have to enroll.  A million people didn't vote last election.  How many just weren't enrolled.  Does that mean those people didn't have the right to vote?  No of course it doesn't.  They did.  Even on election day you can get on the role.


clevedon: Driving is a different matter, everyone has a right to learn to drive - not the right to continue to drive without a valid licence.


But that's still not a privilege. 

Getting a knight hood is a privilege.  You have to be really good at something for the community and then we might give you one.  If you break the law after you get it then it's likely they'll take it off you.

Driving is a simple test that follows some fairly simple teaching.  If you break the law, the worst that happens is that we suspend your right for a short time and tell you that you have to sit the tests again before you can drive again.  But when you turn up to be retested they don't tell you 'no because you've been bad'.




And I still believe the directive is racist also. We will have to disagree on both points then.

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