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  # 1326352 17-Jun-2015 10:38
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Gilco2:
geekiegeek: Reality check people. My understanding from the One News item last night is that they are not "let off" they are given a set amount of time to go and get a licence. If in that time they have not become compliant they will be issued the fine.

Personally I don't have a problem with this and recall a cop doing the exact same for me many years ago regarding an unwarranted car and I'm in no way Maori.
I consider this racism as it only applies to Maori not "White" people.  If they want this then it should apply to ALL people regardless of colour or religion etc.
 Just imagine the uproar if this policy was the other way around..  


Clearly you did not read the link in the post just above. For clarity here is the gist 

It is not racism.

"

 

Statement from Commissioner Mike Bush:

 

Suggestions that Maori in Counties Manukau district are getting preferential treatment for traffic offences are misleading.

 

Police's traffic compliance policy has been in place for more than 10 years and enables police officers to use their discretion to give drivers a certain amount of time to fix a problem rather than paying a fine or being prosecuted.

 

All New Zealanders may be offered traffic compliance if they meet the criteria, regardless of their ethnicity. The decision is at the discretion of individual police officers, who will take into account the particular circumstances of each matter when deciding whether compliance should be offered.

 

Our approach to road policing and any use of police discretion is inclusive. This issue is about reducing the harm from road trauma in all our communities.

 

I acknowledge the 18 month old document reported in the media from Counties Manukau district could have been worded better and we will change that.

 

Nevertheless its intent was good, given the reality is that Maori are significantly over-represented in deaths and injuries associated with road trauma.

 

As police we are committed to a constructive, problem solving approach in tackling this, just as we are with the over-representation of Maori throughout the justice system. 

 

This means taking innovative approaches and working in partnership with Iwi to ensure that we are doing all we can to keep Maori safe, as we do for everyone in our communities.

 

Our Turning of the Tide strategy is our guiding policy document on this and I encourage anyone who wants a fully informed understanding of our approach to Maori to read it."




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


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  # 1326354 17-Jun-2015 10:40
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MikeB4: Again, ANYONE can ask for compliance on certain traffic offenses.


I don't believe you are correct .... i know white people who could not get off rego offences. (you can ask doesn't mean you will get). 

If you were right, police would not need a special policy that says

"all Maori drivers"


In no way is this is good policy because it gives the perception that police are racist and people will remember this for years. 

I feel sorry for law abiding maori because they are tarnished by this.  Colleagues will be giving them sideways glances at work. 





 
 
 
 


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  # 1326355 17-Jun-2015 10:43
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MikeB4:
Gilco2:
geekiegeek: Reality check people. My understanding from the One News item last night is that they are not "let off" they are given a set amount of time to go and get a licence. If in that time they have not become compliant they will be issued the fine.

Personally I don't have a problem with this and recall a cop doing the exact same for me many years ago regarding an unwarranted car and I'm in no way Maori.
I consider this racism as it only applies to Maori not "White" people.  If they want this then it should apply to ALL people regardless of colour or religion etc.
 Just imagine the uproar if this policy was the other way around..  


Clearly you did not read the link in the post just above. For clarity here is the gist 

It is not racism.

" Statement from Commissioner Mike Bush: Suggestions that Maori in Counties Manukau district are getting preferential treatment for traffic offences are misleading. Police's traffic compliance policy has been in place for more than 10 years and enables police officers to use their discretion to give drivers a certain amount of time to fix a problem rather than paying a fine or being prosecuted. All New Zealanders may be offered traffic compliance if they meet the criteria, regardless of their ethnicity. The decision is at the discretion of individual police officers, who will take into account the particular circumstances of each matter when deciding whether compliance should be offered. Our approach to road policing and any use of police discretion is inclusive. This issue is about reducing the harm from road trauma in all our communities. I acknowledge the 18 month old document reported in the media from Counties Manukau district could have been worded better and we will change that. Nevertheless its intent was good, given the reality is that Maori are significantly over-represented in deaths and injuries associated with road trauma. As police we are committed to a constructive, problem solving approach in tackling this, just as we are with the over-representation of Maori throughout the justice system.  This means taking innovative approaches and working in partnership with Iwi to ensure that we are doing all we can to keep Maori safe, as we do for everyone in our communities. Our Turning of the Tide strategy is our guiding policy document on this and I encourage anyone who wants a fully informed understanding of our approach to Maori to read it."



He is trying to spin this. 

"could have been worded better"  --- ie, to not be racist. 

"taking innovative approaches and working in partnership with Iwi to ensure that we are doing all we can to keep Maori safe"  -- so why do they need to discriminate and even mention race? Why does he apply it in this way. 


This statement makes it worse as it smacks of getting caught and trying to say 'wasn't me'.

 






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  # 1326360 17-Jun-2015 10:52
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surfisup1000:
MikeB4: Again, ANYONE can ask for compliance on certain traffic offenses.


I don't believe you are correct .... i know white people who could not get off rego offences. (you can ask doesn't mean you will get). 

If you were right, police would not need a special policy that says

"all Maori drivers"


In no way is this is good policy because it gives the perception that police are racist and people will remember this for years. 

I feel sorry for law abiding maori because they are tarnished by this.  Colleagues will be giving them sideways glances at work. 






You mean " i know  people who could not get off rego offences"  What were the circumstances? I very much doubt they would  have been ticketed due to race.

But you have clearly made a decision regarding this so I will leave you with that decision.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 




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  # 1326362 17-Jun-2015 10:59
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 If you're committing the same crime as someone else, but you're being treated differently simply because you are Maori, does that not hint that there is something inherently wrong with the system?

Marama Fox 18 May 2014

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  # 1326363 17-Jun-2015 11:01
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MikeB4:
You mean " i know  people who could not get off rego offences"  What were the circumstances? I very much doubt they would  have been ticketed due to race.

But you have clearly made a decision regarding this so I will leave you with that decision.


And, you seem to ignore the perception of writing it down as a policy and the affect it may have on law abiding maori .  

I don't get how you form your opinion as it goes against all evidence.




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  # 1326364 17-Jun-2015 11:02
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6FIEND:
 If you're committing the same crime as someone else, but you're being treated differently simply because you are Maori, does that not hint that there is something inherently wrong with the system?

Marama Fox 18 May 2014


OMG; not treated differently,  ANYONE can ask for compliance




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  # 1326365 17-Jun-2015 11:03
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surfisup1000:
MikeB4:
You mean " i know  people who could not get off rego offences"  What were the circumstances? I very much doubt they would  have been ticketed due to race.

But you have clearly made a decision regarding this so I will leave you with that decision.


And, you seem to ignore the perception of writing it down as a policy and the affect it may have on law abiding maori .  

I don't get how you form your opinion as it goes against all evidence.





If  you or I could not ask for compliance then you may have a point, sheesh!!!!!!




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


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  # 1326369 17-Jun-2015 11:05
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MikeB4:It is not racism.

" Statement from Commissioner Mike Bush: Suggestions that Maori in Counties Manukau district are getting preferential treatment for traffic offences are misleading. Police's traffic compliance policy has been in place for more than 10 years and enables police officers to use their discretion to give drivers a certain amount of time to fix a problem rather than paying a fine or being prosecuted. All New Zealanders may be offered traffic compliance if they meet the criteria, regardless of their ethnicity. The decision is at the discretion of individual police officers, who will take into account the particular circumstances of each matter when deciding whether compliance should be offered. Our approach to road policing and any use of police discretion is inclusive. This issue is about reducing the harm from road trauma in all our communities. I acknowledge the 18 month old document reported in the media from Counties Manukau district could have been worded better and we will change that. Nevertheless its intent was good, given the reality is that Maori are significantly over-represented in deaths and injuries associated with road trauma. As police we are committed to a constructive, problem solving approach in tackling this, just as we are with the over-representation of Maori throughout the justice system.  This means taking innovative approaches and working in partnership with Iwi to ensure that we are doing all we can to keep Maori safe, as we do for everyone in our communities. Our Turning of the Tide strategy is our guiding policy document on this and I encourage anyone who wants a fully informed understanding of our approach to Maori to read it."


The policy as outlined above is not racist, but the guideline of how to apply the policy when it comes to unlicensed Maori drivers is.

Anyone who is driving without a license is breaking the law, and they know they are breaking the law. They are also potentially putting others lives at risk as they have not been certified as being competent drivers, or passed tests to demonstrate they even understand the road rules.

The other problem with this policy is that it removes any incentive for Maori to get a drivers license until they have been caught without one.

BEFORE: I don't have a license. I hope I don't get caught as it will cost me $400, maybe I should think about getting my license.

AFTER: I don't have a license. If I get caught I'll worry about it then, but until then there is no point in getting one.

This would be a terrible guideline even if it was applied to everyone, not just Maori.




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  # 1326371 17-Jun-2015 11:07
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MikeB4:
6FIEND:
 If you're committing the same crime as someone else, but you're being treated differently simply because you are Maori, does that not hint that there is something inherently wrong with the system?

Marama Fox 18 May 2014


OMG; not treated differently,  ANYONE can ask for compliance


It is being treated differently if one group gets it automatically and another group has to ask for it.




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  # 1326373 17-Jun-2015 11:09
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surfisup1000:
" Statement from Commissioner Mike Bush: Suggestions that Maori in Counties Manukau district are getting preferential treatment for traffic offences are misleading. Police's traffic compliance policy has been in place for more than 10 years and enables police officers to use their discretion to give drivers a certain amount of time to fix a problem rather than paying a fine or being prosecuted. All New Zealanders may be offered traffic compliance if they meet the criteria, regardless of their ethnicity. The decision is at the discretion of individual police officers, who will take into account the particular circumstances of each matter when deciding whether compliance should be offered. Our approach to road policing and any use of police discretion is inclusive. This issue is about reducing the harm from road trauma in all our communities. I acknowledge the 18 month old document reported in the media from Counties Manukau district could have been worded better and we will change that. Nevertheless its intent was good, given the reality is that Maori are significantly over-represented in deaths and injuries associated with road trauma. As police we are committed to a constructive, problem solving approach in tackling this, just as we are with the over-representation of Maori throughout the justice system.  This means taking innovative approaches and working in partnership with Iwi to ensure that we are doing all we can to keep Maori safe, as we do for everyone in our communities. Our Turning of the Tide strategy is our guiding policy document on this and I encourage anyone who wants a fully informed understanding of our approach to Maori to read it."



He is trying to spin this. 

"could have been worded better"  --- ie, to not be racist. 


Sorry but I find your comments just offensive.

I think he's made it quite clear that he's accepting they made a mistake by not making a better presentation.

surfisup1000:

"taking innovative approaches and working in partnership with Iwi to ensure that we are doing all we can to keep Maori safe"  -- so why do they need to discriminate and even mention race? Why does he apply it in this way.



The answer is very clearly explained.  Maori are over represented so they are attempting to give more attention to the group to bring it back in line with general representation.

surfisup1000:

This statement makes it worse as it smacks of getting caught and trying to say 'wasn't me'.



Sorry but I find your comments just offensive.

It wasn't him.  Not every policy brief can go across one mans desk.  That's just silly thinking.

I'm sure the person who wrote the policy has written many others which didn't hit anyones radar.







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  # 1326374 17-Jun-2015 11:10
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I was given compliance on a ticket for a tyre on the boat trailer that was unsafe due to damage, did not need to ask for it.




Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


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  # 1326375 17-Jun-2015 11:10
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Paul1977:  It is being treated differently if one group gets it automatically and another group has to ask for it.


Yes.

...but there is also a difference here, Maori are just over represented.




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  # 1326377 17-Jun-2015 11:12
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MikeB4: I was given compliance on a ticket for a tyre on the boat trailer that was unsafe due to damage, did not need to ask for it.


Likely you were polite, listened and had a discussion. 

I'm sure you'd have got a good fine if you'd just put your 'I'm an arrogant twat' hat on and gone all nato on the officer, like some folk clearly want to do some days.





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  # 1326378 17-Jun-2015 11:14
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MikeB4:
6FIEND:
 If you're committing the same crime as someone else, but you're being treated differently simply because you are Maori, does that not hint that there is something inherently wrong with the system?

Marama Fox 18 May 2014


OMG; not treated differently,  ANYONE can ask for compliance



Both sides are going to have to agree to disagree :)

I think it is racism, you do not.   

Race based policies are becoming more frequent in government policy though. I do not think it is a good thing. 



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