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  # 1326578 17-Jun-2015 15:12
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DonGould: This is a fantastic move by Auckland Police and to be commended. It's a brave world for the Police. It's putting the onus back on the Moari community to provide driver education to their children rather than just sucking $400 dollar fines off them. I do agree with the suggestion that this should be extended to the whole community too, but the difference with the Moari community is that they're not short of money after treaty settlements.


Eh?

The LAW says you need a licence. Your "community" has SFA to do with it - the obligation to get one and comply with the laws related to using it are INDIVIDUAL obligations.





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  # 1326581 17-Jun-2015 15:13
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frankv: Whilst I agree with the "one rule for all" sentiment, there is a key aspect which hasn't been mentioned in this thread... to avoid a fine, there is a requirement to gain a license within 2 months.

Assuming that the purpose of the driver's license system is to keep untrained (and therefore presumably unsafe) drivers off the road, this discretion seems to me to be a sensible thing.. if the driver can't get a license within two months, then they really shouldn't be driving, and they'll get the $400 fine. OTOH, if the driver is up to license standard, then they're actually already safe & trained... they'll get their license and everything is fine. If they're not up to standard, but do go ahead and get their license. In theory this would be a good thing... we would have replaced an unsafe driver with a safe one... a good outcome, and IMHO well worth the $400.  But I expect the reality will be that you'll only need to get a learner's license to avoid the fine.  Which actually means that they are an *unsafe* driver who needs supervision.

I also wonder how this applies to people with a license, but not appropriate for the circumstances (e.g. on a learner's, at night, carrying passengers). What would they be expected to do? Upgrade to a full license within 2 months? I suspect that these "guidelines" were the bright idea of someone still living in the 1980s.

Incidentally, did anyone else notice that the (presumably senior) Police officer who wrote those "guidelines" had an appallingly poor grasp of the written language, especially an inability to spell, and presumably (s)he was also incapable of using a spell checker.



How about "to avoid a fine, the requirement is to get a licence BEFORE you drive a car"?!





 
 
 
 


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  # 1326583 17-Jun-2015 15:17
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MikeB4:
6FIEND:
 If you're committing the same crime as someone else, but you're being treated differently simply because you are Maori, does that not hint that there is something inherently wrong with the system?

Marama Fox 18 May 2014


OMG; not treated differently,  ANYONE can ask for compliance


 

Anyone can ASK.

The policy appears to suggest that Maori will automatically GET regardless of the ASKING bit!





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  # 1326588 17-Jun-2015 15:20
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Geektastic:
MikeB4:
6FIEND:
 If you're committing the same crime as someone else, but you're being treated differently simply because you are Maori, does that not hint that there is something inherently wrong with the system?

Marama Fox 18 May 2014


OMG; not treated differently,  ANYONE can ask for compliance


Anyone can ASK.

The policy appears to suggest that Maori will automatically GET regardless of the ASKING bit!


It is still compliance and must be fulfilled, it is a positive measure. Would you prefer unlicensed drivers that owe hundreds of dollars or licensed drivers that have a better chance at becoming employed.




Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


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  # 1326589 17-Jun-2015 15:23
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If I am honest, the concept of driving without a licence is one of the more serious driving offences IMV. It suggests that you have no training, no intention to meet standards and very little regard for authority. I do not want such people sharing my roads and placing me, my family or friends or anyone else at risk due to their criminality, laziness, immaturity or whatever regardless of what race they are.

Rather than a free pass, I would have a mandatory 12 month jail term with no parole for the first offence.

Letting such things slide implies that licensing is a trivial matter (the fines seem to run around $150 for most offenders on Police 10 7) and that ignoring it costs less than a week's shopping.

On the other hand, making it a serious offence with serious consequences says "Oi! No. We are not putting up with your behaviour. Sharpen up and obey the rules or else."






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  # 1326590 17-Jun-2015 15:24
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MikeB4:
Geektastic:
MikeB4:
6FIEND:
 If you're committing the same crime as someone else, but you're being treated differently simply because you are Maori, does that not hint that there is something inherently wrong with the system?

Marama Fox 18 May 2014


OMG; not treated differently,  ANYONE can ask for compliance


Anyone can ASK.

The policy appears to suggest that Maori will automatically GET regardless of the ASKING bit!


It is still compliance and must be fulfilled, it is a positive measure. Would you prefer unlicensed drivers that owe hundreds of dollars or licensed drivers that have a better chance at becoming employed.



I'd suggest it's not going to change anything much. Those who don't get licenses in order to drive a car, don't care about fines OR driving with a license. 

It's the same principle as the Antismacking repeal, it won't change a thing for those people who thrash their kids till they end up in hospital. Those people don't think or care about the consequences.

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  # 1326592 17-Jun-2015 15:25
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MikeB4:
Geektastic:
MikeB4:
6FIEND:
 If you're committing the same crime as someone else, but you're being treated differently simply because you are Maori, does that not hint that there is something inherently wrong with the system?

Marama Fox 18 May 2014


OMG; not treated differently,  ANYONE can ask for compliance


Anyone can ASK.

The policy appears to suggest that Maori will automatically GET regardless of the ASKING bit!


It is still compliance and must be fulfilled, it is a positive measure. Would you prefer unlicensed drivers that owe hundreds of dollars or licensed drivers that have a better chance at becoming employed.


I'd prefer they worked for the state to pay off their fines. I have little hope that the sort of idiot who drives without a licence is likely to amount to a particularly useful employee. They are clearly not very bright to begin with and have no respect for the law.





 
 
 
 


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  # 1326595 17-Jun-2015 15:32
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Geektastic:
MikeB4:
Geektastic:
MikeB4:
6FIEND:
 If you're committing the same crime as someone else, but you're being treated differently simply because you are Maori, does that not hint that there is something inherently wrong with the system?

Marama Fox 18 May 2014


OMG; not treated differently,  ANYONE can ask for compliance


Anyone can ASK.

The policy appears to suggest that Maori will automatically GET regardless of the ASKING bit!


It is still compliance and must be fulfilled, it is a positive measure. Would you prefer unlicensed drivers that owe hundreds of dollars or licensed drivers that have a better chance at becoming employed.


I'd prefer they worked for the state to pay off their fines. I have little hope that the sort of idiot who drives without a licence is likely to amount to a particularly useful employee. They are clearly not very bright to begin with and have no respect for the law.


You are making a huge and somewhat cynical assumption. After working for many years with the unemployed my experience has been different. Just an act like this can and often turn lives around.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


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  # 1326669 17-Jun-2015 16:32
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I have no doubt this changes some Maori lives. But the rest of us can have lived waiting to be changed ... But not given the same opportunity. Those are second class residents.




Swype on iOS is detrimental to accurate typing. Apologies in advance.


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  # 1326675 17-Jun-2015 16:39
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joker97: I have no doubt this changes some Maori lives. But the rest of us can have lived waiting to be changed ... But not given the same opportunity. Those are second class residents.


There are agencies for help available to everyone




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


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# 1326676 17-Jun-2015 16:40
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Jaxson:
Paul1977: Brilliant strategy for reducing Maori offending, just don't charge them for some offences. On paper the Maori offending rate drops.


Came here just to write this.

Akin to reducing sickness benefits by moving them to the unemployment benefit.


I think the government actually did move people from the unemployment benefit onto sickness benefits to reduce the unemployment figures a couple of years back.
frown




Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler

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  # 1326679 17-Jun-2015 16:46
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robjg63:
Jaxson:
Paul1977: Brilliant strategy for reducing Maori offending, just don't charge them for some offences. On paper the Maori offending rate drops.


Came here just to write this.

Akin to reducing sickness benefits by moving them to the unemployment benefit.


I think the government actually did move people from the unemployment benefit onto sickness benefits to reduce the unemployment figures a couple of years back.
frown


That is not correct




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


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  # 1326681 17-Jun-2015 16:47
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robjg63: I think the government actually did move people from the unemployment benefit onto sickness benefits to reduce the unemployment figures a couple of years back.
frown


The government moved long term unemployment to sickness?  That should happen.  Anyone who cann't get a job after 6 months of trying needs to see a doctor and we need to start figuring out what the problem is.

What we want to know is how many people are unemployed and transient.






Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - don@i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz


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  # 1326695 17-Jun-2015 16:59
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DonGould:
robjg63: I think the government actually did move people from the unemployment benefit onto sickness benefits to reduce the unemployment figures a couple of years back.
frown


The government moved long term unemployment to sickness?  That should happen.  Anyone who cann't get a job after 6 months of trying needs to see a doctor and we need to start figuring out what the problem is.

What we want to know is how many people are unemployed and transient.




This is all off topic, but the reality is 6 months is not a long time. Secondly there is no Sickness Benefit




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


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  # 1326710 17-Jun-2015 17:20
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6FIEND: He accrued the fines by committing crimes in the first place.  To suggest otherwise (and that somehow the police caused the situation by charging him after he committed those crimes) is a failure of logic.

Umm, no. Summary offences [strict liability] actually.

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