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  # 1326720 17-Jun-2015 17:47
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MikeB4:
Geektastic:
MikeB4:
Geektastic:
MikeB4:
6FIEND:
 If you're committing the same crime as someone else, but you're being treated differently simply because you are Maori, does that not hint that there is something inherently wrong with the system?

Marama Fox 18 May 2014


OMG; not treated differently,  ANYONE can ask for compliance


Anyone can ASK.

The policy appears to suggest that Maori will automatically GET regardless of the ASKING bit!


It is still compliance and must be fulfilled, it is a positive measure. Would you prefer unlicensed drivers that owe hundreds of dollars or licensed drivers that have a better chance at becoming employed.


I'd prefer they worked for the state to pay off their fines. I have little hope that the sort of idiot who drives without a licence is likely to amount to a particularly useful employee. They are clearly not very bright to begin with and have no respect for the law.


You are making a huge and somewhat cynical assumption. After working for many years with the unemployed my experience has been different. Just an act like this can and often turn lives around.


Generally I prefer big sticks to small carrots.





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  # 1326724 17-Jun-2015 17:51
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Geektastic:
Generally I prefer big sticks to small carrots.


That is a failed method, I prefer to look for positive methods to achieve win win outcomes.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  # 1326725 17-Jun-2015 17:52
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MikeB4:
joker97: I have no doubt this changes some Maori lives. But the rest of us can have lived waiting to be changed ... But not given the same opportunity. Those are second class residents.


There are agencies for help available to everyone


And your point?




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  # 1326740 17-Jun-2015 18:19
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Geektastic:  Generally I prefer big sticks to small carrots.


But where do you stand on democracy and peoples right to have their own views?

Have you considered that many of these folk don't feel they should have to have a plastic card just to say they can do something they know they can already do.

Why should I pay to have a new card made every 10 years?




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  # 1326755 17-Jun-2015 18:50
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Geektastic:
Rather than a free pass, I would have a mandatory 12 month jail term with no parole for the first offence.



I think that's probably a bit harsh. A fine is perfectly appropriate the first time (especially if it's a case of license expired, rather than never-had-one). But the second time? Crush the car. Same for DUI.




iPad Pro 11" + iPhone XS + 2degrees 4tw!

 

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


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  # 1326758 17-Jun-2015 18:57
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The whole thing is that the police say they are all about lowering accident rates, and the road toll. But no dount unlicenced drivers and vehicles are potentially unsafe, so aare a contributor to the accident rates. Not sure on the statistics and would be interesting to see. But they now have an almost zero tollerance on exceeding the speed limit, which is also apparently a contributor. So really it does all seem double standards to me. Maybe if they don't think they will pay the fines anyway, the fines are too high, or they need to look at other punishments.
The thing is that driving is a privilege, and not a right.

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  # 1326760 17-Jun-2015 19:00
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DonGould:
Geektastic:  Generally I prefer big sticks to small carrots.


But where do you stand on democracy and peoples right to have their own views?

Have you considered that many of these folk don't feel they should have to have a plastic card just to say they can do something they know they can already do.

Why should I pay to have a new card made every 10 years?


I stand as "Tough. That is what the law says until it is changed. Live with it or face the consequences."





 
 
 
 


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  # 1326761 17-Jun-2015 19:03
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MikeB4:
Geektastic:
Generally I prefer big sticks to small carrots.


That is a failed method, I prefer to look for positive methods to achieve win win outcomes.


Have they ever done it here then?

I prefer to punish people severely for transgressing the very simple to understand law. Make life unpleasant enough if the line is crossed and those with a modicum of common sense will soon cease crossing the line.





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  # 1326786 17-Jun-2015 20:02
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Geektastic:
MikeB4:
Geektastic:
Generally I prefer big sticks to small carrots.


That is a failed method, I prefer to look for positive methods to achieve win win outcomes.


Have they ever done it here then?

I prefer to punish people severely for transgressing the very simple to understand law. Make life unpleasant enough if the line is crossed and those with a modicum of common sense will soon cease crossing the line.


It's hard to stand up when the foot is constantly on your throat...

They also stopped teaching common sense in the 1970's. 




Always be yourself, unless you can be Batman, then always be the Batman



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  # 1326791 17-Jun-2015 20:16
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Geektastic:
MikeB4:
Geektastic:
Generally I prefer big sticks to small carrots.


That is a failed method, I prefer to look for positive methods to achieve win win outcomes.


Have they ever done it here then?

I prefer to punish people severely for transgressing the very simple to understand law. Make life unpleasant enough if the line is crossed and those with a modicum of common sense will soon cease crossing the line.


Please tell me one country where that has been successful, and by successful I don't mean prisons overcrowded.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


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  # 1326814 17-Jun-2015 21:19
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Rappelle:
Geektastic:
MikeB4:
Geektastic:
Generally I prefer big sticks to small carrots.


That is a failed method, I prefer to look for positive methods to achieve win win outcomes.


Have they ever done it here then?

I prefer to punish people severely for transgressing the very simple to understand law. Make life unpleasant enough if the line is crossed and those with a modicum of common sense will soon cease crossing the line.


You've been almost comical with your opinion in this thread so far. You're beginning to describe a dystopia. The idea is to positively affect the Maori population, not send the rest of them to prison.


I'm not terribly interested in "positively affecting" any part of the population. The law is the law. It is clear and well publicised. Obey it or face the consequences.

Perhaps that simple message is no longer taught by parents?





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  # 1326818 17-Jun-2015 21:28
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MikeB4:
Geektastic:
MikeB4:
Geektastic:
Generally I prefer big sticks to small carrots.


That is a failed method, I prefer to look for positive methods to achieve win win outcomes.


Have they ever done it here then?

I prefer to punish people severely for transgressing the very simple to understand law. Make life unpleasant enough if the line is crossed and those with a modicum of common sense will soon cease crossing the line.


Please tell me one country where that has been successful, and by successful I don't mean prisons overcrowded.


I suspect that there are many countries where the number of people who casually drive without a licence is lower. I have certainly never been in one where such things are disregarded so casually. People stopped for this offence on Police 10-7 etc are often filmed giggling like immature children, expressing no shame or remorse or sense of wrong.

To extrapolate using a Geeky, comic book example, if this were Megacity One and Judges roamed our roads, and the penalty for driving without a licence was summary execution by Lawgiver at the side of the road, how many perps would think driving without a licence was a good idea? Not so many, I suspect.

If you treat laws in such a way that breaking them is seen as casually acceptable because the consequences, if any, are neither painful nor significant, what does that say about how seriously the law should be regarded?

We are talking (mostly) about untrained drivers who have no responsibility and have never passed a test jumping behind the wheel because they think it is fine to do that. It isn't - it could be you, your child etc that they kill through their idiotic behaviour. A small fine - or being let off - sends entirely the wrong message, whatever "community" you come from.







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  # 1326819 17-Jun-2015 21:37
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And in case anyone thinks I am being unduly harsh, here are the typical US penalties for the same offence:

1st Offense


● Up to 90 days in prison

● $150 to $200 fine

● License suspended at least one year

Subsequent Offenses

● Up to one year in prison

● $200 to $600 fine

● License suspended at least two years

● If previously violated these provisions or operated without obtaining a license: additional fine of up to $500 or up to 100 community service hours

● If two previous violations of those provisions: additional mandatory 90 days in prison





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  # 1326867 17-Jun-2015 22:37
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Might depend on how much the lawyers are paid. People like Lindsay lohan and Justin bieber?




Swype on iOS is detrimental to accurate typing. Apologies in advance.


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  # 1326868 17-Jun-2015 22:39
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DonGould:
Geektastic:  Generally I prefer big sticks to small carrots.


But where do you stand on democracy and peoples right to have their own views?

Have you considered that many of these folk don't feel they should have to have a plastic card just to say they can do something they know they can already do.

Why should I pay to have a new card made every 10 years?


Because it's the LAW. Don't like it? Immigrate, plenty of places that don't require driver licensing... Oh wait....

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