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  Reply # 1334960 1-Jul-2015 12:22
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bazzer:
MileHighKiwi: The story in the Dom Post today about bots buying tickets is disturbing. I really don't object to people on selling their personal tickets at a profit, free market and all that, but if bots are buying multiple tickets with the pure goal of financial gain, that's wrong and needs to be stopped.

Why? I am personally against scalping, but if you're going to say it's OK for individuals to buy tickets and sell them for premeditated profit, why is it not OK for those same people to use bots to do the work for them?

Unless you're talking about Skynet in which case, I agree with you.


Agree - buying tickets to resell for profit from the onset is scalping whether done by human or automation. The automation is quite worrying though.

Ticketek need to seriously bump up their system to detect this if it is going on and then prosecute those doing it to the maximum extent of the law, and I am sure IRD would like to be pointed in those scalpers direct too so as to make sure they were paid their dues from those profits!

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  Reply # 1334961 1-Jul-2015 12:23
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So does anyone have any stats in terms of the number of tickets that are scalped at such events?  I just had a quick look on Trademe and only saw 10 auctions offering 26 tickets for the Super Rugby final.  Now I know this is by no means a valid sample size but is the problem really that big?  It would seem like a waste of time and resources to police something if the number of scalped tickets is low percentage wise??

 
 
 
 




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  Reply # 1334963 1-Jul-2015 12:26
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floydbloke:
mclean: The underlying problem is that there is a supply/demand disequilibrium.  The tickets are too cheap.  If tickets were priced so that they didn't sell out instantly then there would simply be no "black" market.  Rugby would make a return commensurate with how the market values their product, and everyone would moan about the price of the tickets.


I agree with the problem statement in essence, but that would very quickly preclude those of lesser means from attending high-profile/high-demand events. At least with the current system (if you can call that) everyone has a, more or less, equal chance of buying tickets.


If bots are indeed being used that there is no way everyone has an equal chance. Bots would very much move the advange away from your normal human buyer.

It isn't that the tickets are too cheap - it's that there are not any laws governing the situation so people are taking advantage of it. Even if the tickets were twice the price this would have happened because those tickets would still be in high demand - and instead of onselling tickets for $500 per seat, it could be $600 or $700 per seat.



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  Reply # 1334972 1-Jul-2015 12:30
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Satch: So does anyone have any stats in terms of the number of tickets that are scalped at such events?  I just had a quick look on Trademe and only saw 10 auctions offering 26 tickets for the Super Rugby final.  Now I know this is by no means a valid sample size but is the problem really that big?  It would seem like a waste of time and resources to police something if the number of scalped tickets is low percentage wise??


There are at least 12 auctions for tickets that have already ended. Some were withdrawn, so draw what you will from that (sold offline, relisted, changed mind, ...)

There were apparently 77 auctions on an overseas site earlier yesterday.

It would be interesting to know the actual numbers, but I suspect we never will.

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  Reply # 1335010 1-Jul-2015 13:38
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keewee01: ...Even if the tickets were twice the price this would have happened because those tickets would still be in high demand - and instead of onselling tickets for $500 per seat, it could be $600 or $700 per seat.

If the tickets were $70, and as result there were still a few left at Ticketek, then no-one could onsell a ticket for >$70.  I'm not saying that would be politically acceptable, but that would be normal free market economics.




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  Reply # 1335012 1-Jul-2015 13:42
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keewee01:
Satch: So does anyone have any stats in terms of the number of tickets that are scalped at such events?  I just had a quick look on Trademe and only saw 10 auctions offering 26 tickets for the Super Rugby final.  Now I know this is by no means a valid sample size but is the problem really that big?  It would seem like a waste of time and resources to police something if the number of scalped tickets is low percentage wise??


There are at least 12 auctions for tickets that have already ended. Some were withdrawn, so draw what you will from that (sold offline, relisted, changed mind, ...)

There were apparently 77 auctions on an overseas site earlier yesterday.

It would be interesting to know the actual numbers, but I suspect we never will.


So 89 sellers out of approx 30,000 tickets.

Assuming 10 tickets per seller and double the number of sellers let us say that there were 1780 tickets sold.

That is 6% of tickets so while a noticeable number it is hardly high.

I'm sure I've completely overstated the figures so the real number hopefully is much lower.

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  Reply # 1335049 1-Jul-2015 13:58
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It depends on how many other black markets there are other than Trademe

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  Reply # 1335100 1-Jul-2015 14:51
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keewee01:
floydbloke:
mclean: The underlying problem is that there is a supply/demand disequilibrium.  The tickets are too cheap.  If tickets were priced so that they didn't sell out instantly then there would simply be no "black" market.  Rugby would make a return commensurate with how the market values their product, and everyone would moan about the price of the tickets.


I agree with the problem statement in essence, but that would very quickly preclude those of lesser means from attending high-profile/high-demand events. At least with the current system (if you can call that) everyone has a, more or less, equal chance of buying tickets.


If bots are indeed being used that there is no way everyone has an equal chance. Bots would very much move the advange away from your normal human buyer.

....


Good point.  My comment only considered the 'raise the price to what the market will tolerate' point.





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  Reply # 1335112 1-Jul-2015 15:06
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Turns out the guy I was trying for managed to get some in the end. His wife managed to get through online, so good result.

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  Reply # 1335119 1-Jul-2015 15:08
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invisibleman18: Turns out the guy I was trying for managed to get some in the end. His wife managed to get through online, so good result.

What would've happened if you'd both got him his tickets? Trademe?

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  Reply # 1335123 1-Jul-2015 15:22
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Not sure. I'd probably offer them here/another forum I visit/Facebook at face value to the first person to message me. Would imagine it would be easy enough to find someone without going to Trademe. Certainly wouldn't be wanting any profit, would just want someone who missed out to get them for the same price. Guess it would have been up to him if that had happened though as was going to use his credit card.

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Reply # 1335131 1-Jul-2015 15:30
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invisibleman18: Not sure. I'd probably offer them here/another forum I visit/Facebook at face value to the first person to message me. Would imagine it would be easy enough to find someone without going to Trademe. Certainly wouldn't be wanting any profit, would just want someone who missed out to get them for the same price. Guess it would have been up to him if that had happened though as was going to use his credit card.

Just try $1 reserve! wink

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  Reply # 1336293 3-Jul-2015 10:55
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my question - why isn't Tiketek asking Trademe to remove all auctions of tickets that are above face value (plus resonable costs) ?

they should at least attempt to enforce their own Terms & Conditions

Trademe says they cannot act off request from third party (such as the Highlanders)

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  Reply # 1336318 3-Jul-2015 11:21
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bongojona: my question - why isn't Tiketek asking Trademe to remove all auctions of tickets that are above face value (plus resonable costs) ?

they should at least attempt to enforce their own Terms & Conditions

Trademe says they cannot act off request from third party (such as the Highlanders)


Time and Effort for no direct return for Ticketek.



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  Reply # 1336337 3-Jul-2015 11:45
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There's probably a loophole in that by listing it for $1 reserve they are technically not selling it above face value, it's the bidders choosing to pay that much.

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