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659 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  # 1350707 23-Jul-2015 19:38
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I fly my kite opposite a mosque, often gets kids and adults as an audience before and after prayer, next time ill ask if i can come over and see what Islam is all about.

Fat bottom Trump
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  # 1350753 23-Jul-2015 20:32
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Muslims get credit for explaining their faith to non-believers so you should have a warm reception as long as you are sincere.





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


 
 
 
 


JWR

762 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1350805 23-Jul-2015 21:07
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Geektastic: Personally I have grave concerns for anyone that believes in anything for which zero evidence exists.

In a sane world, it would be labelled insanity and get you medicated. As Bertrand Russell said

"If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes.
But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense.

If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time."

which was further extended by the most excellent Richard Dawkins

"The reason organized religion merits outright hostility is that, unlike belief in Russell's teapot, religion is powerful, influential, tax-exempt and systematically passed on to children too young to defend themselves. Children are not compelled to spend their formative years memorizing loony books about teapots. Government-subsidized schools don't exclude children whose parents prefer the wrong shape of teapot. Teapot-believers don't stone teapot-unbelievers, teapot-apostates, teapot-heretics and teapot-blasphemers to death. Mothers don't warn their sons off marrying teapot-shiksas whose parents believe in three teapots rather than one. People who put the milk in first don't kneecap those who put the tea in first."


I look forward to the day, a decade or two from now, when NZers overwhelmingly answer 'no religion' on their census forms.

People can believe what they like.

But, I want to be free of their beliefs.

I think it is appalling that NZ grants tax free status to religions.

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Master Geek


  # 1350810 23-Jul-2015 21:13
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Well let's not forget that Ahmadinejad wanted to blow Israel off the map and it seems nothing has changed. Iraq and it seems Saudi Arabia want to do the same thing too.  They haven't succeeded of course because The Lord thy God protects them and from the surrounding nations that are trying to invade. I don't doubt that Israel would engage nuclear weapons if the need arises.

So I'd say islam is rather dangerous.



JWR

762 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1350819 23-Jul-2015 21:29

firewire: Well let's not forget that Ahmadinejad wanted to blow Israel off the map and it seems nothing has changed. Iraq and it seems Saudi Arabia want to do the same thing too.  They haven't succeeded of course because The Lord thy God protects them and from the surrounding nations that are trying to invade. I don't doubt that Israel would engage nuclear weapons if the need arises.

So I'd say islam is rather dangerous.




Ahmadinejad is no longer President of Iran.

Iran is mainly Shia. Saudi Arabia is mainly Sunni.

Historically, these two sects are more hostile to each other than they are with other religions.

Since Israel has nuclear weapons, that makes them the most dangerous country in the Middle East.

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Master Geek


  # 1350824 23-Jul-2015 21:39
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Yes but Israel isn't being sanctioned economically and they have to protect themselves and have every right to. I don't think they've threatened other nations with extinction either.

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  # 1350829 23-Jul-2015 21:48
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firewire: Well let's not forget that Ahmadinejad wanted to blow Israel off the map and it seems nothing has changed. Iraq and it seems Saudi Arabia want to do the same thing too.  They haven't succeeded of course because The Lord thy God protects them and from the surrounding nations that are trying to invade. I don't doubt that Israel would engage nuclear weapons if the need arises.

So I'd say islam is rather dangerous.




Iran is/was a belligerent state not Islam




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  # 1350864 23-Jul-2015 23:00
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MikeB4:
Geektastic: To answer the OP's question as far as I can:

I have witnessed first hand the destruction of Britain by unfettered multiculti immigration.

Many cultures have quietly assimilated into British culture well - the stand out failure would be the Mohammedans. They persist in both visible differences (e.g. burqas and hijab) and invisible differences (e.g. causing almost all UK supermarket meat to be halal just in case and causing state schools to stop serving pork at lunch just in case).

I know many very nice muslims - and Citizen Khan on BBC tv is a comedy that shows they can laugh at themselves - but I would certainly exercise caution as there is a streak of madness there that seems pernicious and invidious when compared to most other religions.




You say "quietly assimilated into British culture well " so with that if British folk moved to Saudi Arabia for example the same would apply and that they quietly assimilate into Saudi culture . History has shown that it has not happened.

I see nothing wrong with peoples bringing and maintaining their cultural uniqueness to New Zealand, it enhances our society.


I'm sure you'll still be saying that when the 'cultural uniqueness' is the grooming of underage children for sex or the inclusion of Sharia Law in NZ courts...although to be fair, the grooming thing results from excessive multiculti and the fear of being 'racist' rather than Islam per se.





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  # 1350897 24-Jul-2015 07:08
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Geektastic:
MikeB4:
Geektastic: To answer the OP's question as far as I can:

I have witnessed first hand the destruction of Britain by unfettered multiculti immigration.

Many cultures have quietly assimilated into British culture well - the stand out failure would be the Mohammedans. They persist in both visible differences (e.g. burqas and hijab) and invisible differences (e.g. causing almost all UK supermarket meat to be halal just in case and causing state schools to stop serving pork at lunch just in case).

I know many very nice muslims - and Citizen Khan on BBC tv is a comedy that shows they can laugh at themselves - but I would certainly exercise caution as there is a streak of madness there that seems pernicious and invidious when compared to most other religions.




You say "quietly assimilated into British culture well " so with that if British folk moved to Saudi Arabia for example the same would apply and that they quietly assimilate into Saudi culture . History has shown that it has not happened.

I see nothing wrong with peoples bringing and maintaining their cultural uniqueness to New Zealand, it enhances our society.


I'm sure you'll still be saying that when the 'cultural uniqueness' is the grooming of underage children for sex or the inclusion of Sharia Law in NZ courts...although to be fair, the grooming thing results from excessive multiculti and the fear of being 'racist' rather than Islam per se.


The English term "multi cult" is not used here, NZ is more enlightened and the term here is cultural diversity. If one learns and respects other cultures differences and embraces those differences fear disappears.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 




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Ultimate Geek
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  # 1350900 24-Jul-2015 07:28
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Meh, religion is for weak minded people that cant come to grips with their own mortality, and this has been exploited by many over the centuries.

I dont need an imaginary man in the sky to tell or show me how to live or treat other humans with decency, let alone for some lie that ill goto heaven..we die.. Thats it.

We humans are so bloody up ourselves and dumb if we think we can answer the universe with a book written by man.. We are naval lint and insignificant.

But hey i dont begrudge someone their religion, ill even go so far to find out something about it, so long as they dont screw up the lives of non believers or try to change the country to suit their religion.


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  # 1350902 24-Jul-2015 07:39
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heylinb4nz: Meh, religion is for weak minded people that cant come to grips with their own mortality, and this has been exploited by many over the centuries.

I dont need an imaginary man in the sky to tell or show me how to live or treat other humans with decency, let alone for some lie that ill goto heaven..we die.. Thats it.

We humans are so bloody up ourselves and dumb if we think we can answer the universe with a book written by man.. We are naval lint and insignificant.

But hey i dont begrudge someone their religion, ill even go so far to find out something about it, so long as they dont screw up the lives of non believers or try to change the country to suit their religion.



You say in one line you don't need to be shown how to treat others with decency yet you describe others with belief different to yours as weak minded, how is that decency? 

I am not religious at all but I respect others beliefs and do not feel threatened by them or insult them. 




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 




659 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  # 1350907 24-Jul-2015 07:53
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MikeB4:
heylinb4nz: Meh, religion is for weak minded people that cant come to grips with their own mortality, and this has been exploited by many over the centuries.

I dont need an imaginary man in the sky to tell or show me how to live or treat other humans with decency, let alone for some lie that ill goto heaven..we die.. Thats it.

We humans are so bloody up ourselves and dumb if we think we can answer the universe with a book written by man.. We are naval lint and insignificant.

But hey i dont begrudge someone their religion, ill even go so far to find out something about it, so long as they dont screw up the lives of non believers or try to change the country to suit their religion.



You say in one line you don't need to be shown how to treat others with decency yet you describe others with belief different to yours as weak minded, how is that decency? 

I am not religious at all but I respect others beliefs and do not feel threatened by them or insult them. 


Yet the jews can call us Gentiles, Islam unbelivers\inifdels, Christains sinners,blasphmers and tell me im going to hell becuase I dont believe in their fairy man.

Oh wait, they are religious so they are allowed to do that...god forbid that non believers can make statements based on more credible reasoning...dare we insult them..or their liberal sympathisers.

Mad Scientist
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  # 1350940 24-Jul-2015 08:29
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We all toe a fine line warring against something.

- Climate change eco friendly fervents vs scumbag polluters
- Antispeeders vs speeders who want to raise the speed limit
- Happy meat / vegans vs sad meat eaters
- keep the jobs local vs buy imported goods
- etc

We all defend ourselves against external forces
- Israel vs neighbours
- Shia vs Sunni
- Same sex couple wanting to have children vs those who wish them not to
- Whalers vs antiwhalers
- Christians vs those who try to be "bad influence"
- Islam vs those who try to be "bad influence"
- Countries who don't like America vs America
- Liverpool fans vs the rest

In fact the latter helped shape the world into how it currently is. Most countries would feel some baggage from these colonization and re-colonization, other than say Britain and NZ (I suppose the Maori can feel they have been colonized). Which carries on and on. From Palestine to Malaysia, Ukraine to Zimbabwe.

One cannot blanket out because there are Islamist extremists, therefore ban all of Islam - that would create even more extremists. But how to stop Extremists of any origin, not sure. I note it has been said in many other threads, Islamist extremists make up a small minority of acts of extremism at any time.




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


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  # 1350942 24-Jul-2015 08:36
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heylinb4nz:
MikeB4:
heylinb4nz: Meh, religion is for weak minded people that cant come to grips with their own mortality, and this has been exploited by many over the centuries.

I dont need an imaginary man in the sky to tell or show me how to live or treat other humans with decency, let alone for some lie that ill goto heaven..we die.. Thats it.

We humans are so bloody up ourselves and dumb if we think we can answer the universe with a book written by man.. We are naval lint and insignificant.

But hey i dont begrudge someone their religion, ill even go so far to find out something about it, so long as they dont screw up the lives of non believers or try to change the country to suit their religion.



You say in one line you don't need to be shown how to treat others with decency yet you describe others with belief different to yours as weak minded, how is that decency? 

I am not religious at all but I respect others beliefs and do not feel threatened by them or insult them. 


Yet the jews can call us Gentiles, Islam unbelivers\inifdels, Christains sinners,blasphmers and tell me im going to hell becuase I dont believe in their fairy man.

Oh wait, they are religious so they are allowed to do that...god forbid that non believers can make statements based on more credible reasoning...dare we insult them..or their liberal sympathisers.


Two wrongs do not make a right. The attitude you are postulating here is what perpetuates intolerance. What was the adage, 'do unto others that which you would have them do unto you'




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


3295 posts

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  # 1350951 24-Jul-2015 08:42
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heylinb4nz: Yet the jews can call us Gentiles, Islam unbelivers\inifdels, Christains sinners,blasphmers and tell me im going to hell becuase I dont believe in their fairy man.

Oh wait, they are religious so they are allowed to do that...god forbid that non believers can make statements based on more credible reasoning...dare we insult them..or their liberal sympathisers.

At the risk of quoting that magical answer book written by man, "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets."

Or to put it another way (thanks Eddie Vedder) "if you hate something, don't you do it too".

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