Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


Fat bottom Trump
10152 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4991

Lifetime subscriber

# 177228 27-Jul-2015 10:41
Send private message



Although many people here seem disparaging of Fairfax and Stuff, I am a fan of Mike "MOD" O'Donnell and I enjoy his intelligent columns in the Dominion Post and elsewhere. His latest, on Stuff, discusses the pros and cons of ad blockers. This is an issue that has also popped up on Geekzone.

I have used script blockers since the days of Proxomitron. I find most advertising unwelcome and intrusive. It generally doesn't interest me. If I want something, I research it first and my decisions are not based on advertising claims.

In the early days of the Internet, before commercial interests took over, it was mostly open source and devoted to the idea of free sharing. Comparing then to now it could be argued that money and commercialisation have corrupted something that was once pure and noble. It can also be argued that commercialisation has resulted in the enormous range of goods, services and sheer knowledge now available on-line that could not have even been dreamt of in the 1990s. Money has also had an empowering effect.

So which is it? Good or bad? Or somewhere in-between? Commercial interests don't just saturate us with uninvited ads that might or might not be useful for anything. They also spy on us, mine our data, try to track us, steal our bandwidth and data allowances with their endless intrusions, pursue an active and relentless campaign to manipulate and motivate us. Are the rewards of the modern Internet worth the price?

I block ads because they irritate and annoy me and I don't see any personal value in them. Whatever actual information they may contain will turn up elsewhere if it has any real usefulness. I just don't see the point of them. Yet they do support and make possible a great deal of content that I do see the point of and would miss very much if it was no longer available.

I can live with static ads, especially if they support something I appreciate. I do not tolerate uninvited audio or video pop-ups, or anything that tries to jump into my face. The latest trick seems to be seemingly useful links that appear in search results but then hijack your browser and loop you around whatever they are pushing while preventing you from exiting. I just hit another one while doing a perfectly innocent search for an Opera Mail question. These links don't seem to be making permanent changes, which is marginally less criminal than in the past, but the only way to exit them is to close the browser with Task Manager. Is this kind of crap the future of the Internet?

Here is the link to the O'Donnell item: http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/70512028/adblockers--blessing-or-curse-for-the-free-internet






I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5
BDFL - Memuneh
63814 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 14274

Administrator
Trusted
Geekzone
Lifetime subscriber

  # 1352395 27-Jul-2015 10:48
One person supports this post
Send private message

The article is interesting but has some innacuracies.

For example "... found that ad-blockers could reduce page loading speeds of mainstream news websites by up to 80 per cent." should really be "ad-blockers (sp) could improve page loading speeds of mainstream news websites by up to 80 per cent."

The author then goes to say "At first blush then, the continual growth of ad-blockers seem a pretty handy idea and means you are less likely to be chased by display network advertisements as you traverse the likes of Google and Facebook. And frankly when you look at the revenues of these web giants you figure they can afford to take a bit of a haircut, especially when you look at the almost non-existent tax they pay in countries like New Zealand."

Unfortunately he fails to mention that advertising sometimes can be the only, or the major, source of revenue for small publisers - such as ourselves running Geekzone. We are not Google, Facebook, Yahoo or even the Stuff publisher Fairfax. We are a small, home-based business, pay local tax and GST and reducing revenues from advertising can severely impact the capacity we have to keep the site running. Just look at one of the commenters saying that he runs a small community website and ad revenues are only 10% of the cost of running his site. 

People think that "free" means "free". It's not.





12959 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4332

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 1352576 27-Jul-2015 14:18
Send private message

The thing is that it is clear that more or less nobody actually wants advertising.

I suspect that if it was possible to 'ad block' live TV at reasonable cost, almost all users would do so. The same for the internet.

Those advertising therefore ought to ask themselves why they persist in spending money on something that annoys so many....





845 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 200


  # 1352953 27-Jul-2015 23:00
4 people support this post
Send private message

Geektastic: The thing is that it is clear that more or less nobody actually wants advertising.

I suspect that if it was possible to 'ad block' live TV at reasonable cost, almost all users would do so. The same for the internet.

Those advertising therefore ought to ask themselves why they persist in spending money on something that annoys so many....


I cannot agree with that at all.

Consider my workplace. Around ten people. All tech-heads.

Nobody buys a paper but we all read the Herald or Stuff on a daily basis. Nobody looks at the ads on the website.

Then, around once a month, we get a visit from our guy in Welly. He flies up and stays in an hotel. He normally gets a free copy of the NZH each day and brings it in to work and leaves it in the break room.

Everybody looks at it for the adverts.

Sometimes, there is a half page ad from a gun shop. Our firearms guy will spend all of his lunch-break poring over the ad and salivating over the best parts. Once every three months, there is a multi-page flyer from Jaycar inserted into the paper. You had better be prepared to form a queue for a look at that one. Big display ads from supermarkets or tech outlets will also be viewed by most folks.

The problem with website advertising is that, compared with advertising in print, it is rubbish.

418 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 25


  # 1352955 27-Jul-2015 23:04
Send private message

I think it depends on the type of ad. Static ads, that don't pretend to be unbiased information, provide income that creates power. The world needs ads for commerce to happen. On the other hand pop-ups, unwanted video, or ads pretending to be impartial articles are creeping in, and make surfing unpleasant.

I'd like to see an ad blocker program than can differentiate. 




Tap That - Great cheap tablets and tablet accessories. Windows and Android, NZ based

418 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 25


  # 1352958 27-Jul-2015 23:12
One person supports this post
Send private message

Geektastic: The thing is that it is clear that more or less nobody actually wants advertising.

I suspect that if it was possible to 'ad block' live TV at reasonable cost, almost all users would do so. The same for the internet.

Those advertising therefore ought to ask themselves why they persist in spending money on something that annoys so many....


Probably because its effective. Even if its intrusive. It's a love hate relationship, google search makes its money from paid ads, facebook the same. Live TV the same. Without that income, they wouldn't have the same budgets.

Consider this. HBO has a huge budget for game of thrones. What if everybody downloaded it, rather than watched or paid for it? There would be no game of thrones. It would not exist, at all. Everything works like this, music, tv, movies, services. 

We live in a golden age of television right now, where fortunately, people still watch paid TV, and free to air, without qualms. When that is gone, and all we have left is product placement, pop-up ads, and low budget shows, people will complain. Movies can make money from cinema, but already we see a decline in quality based on pirating - cape movies anyone? Same with music - musicians have to make their money from products, and shows, so the pop engine has ground it up. 

If your not prepared to either pay money, or watch ads, be prepared for a world where everything has the exact quality of freemium software in the google play store - or worse.




Tap That - Great cheap tablets and tablet accessories. Windows and Android, NZ based

3885 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1757

Subscriber

  # 1352965 27-Jul-2015 23:45
One person supports this post

The other issue is online advertising networks being slack with security. There have been cases of adds with malware inside them. Where the end user just had to have the infected add displayed to them. And their computer got infected. Trademe got hit at least once by this. So blocking adds can be justified for security reasons.





JWR

757 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 238


  # 1352970 28-Jul-2015 00:16

freitasm: The article is interesting but has some innacuracies.

For example "... found that ad-blockers could reduce page loading speeds of mainstream news websites by up to 80 per cent." should really be "ad-blockers (sp) could improve page loading speeds of mainstream news websites by up to 80 per cent."

The author then goes to say "At first blush then, the continual growth of ad-blockers seem a pretty handy idea and means you are less likely to be chased by display network advertisements as you traverse the likes of Google and Facebook. And frankly when you look at the revenues of these web giants you figure they can afford to take a bit of a haircut, especially when you look at the almost non-existent tax they pay in countries like New Zealand."

Unfortunately he fails to mention that advertising sometimes can be the only, or the major, source of revenue for small publisers - such as ourselves running Geekzone. We are not Google, Facebook, Yahoo or even the Stuff publisher Fairfax. We are a small, home-based business, pay local tax and GST and reducing revenues from advertising can severely impact the capacity we have to keep the site running. Just look at one of the commenters saying that he runs a small community website and ad revenues are only 10% of the cost of running his site. 

People think that "free" means "free". It's not.



I am not against advertising.

It is important for almost every business.

But, there is a limit!

You shouldn't be able to data mine people's most personal details.

You shouldn't be able to constantly shove advertising in people's faces.

I know modern PR and advertising is based on Psychological studies.

Apparently, most people can be easily manipulated.

That doesn't mean there won't be a backlash against such activities in the future.








BDFL - Memuneh
63814 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 14274

Administrator
Trusted
Geekzone
Lifetime subscriber

1267 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 179

Trusted

  # 1352991 28-Jul-2015 05:49
One person supports this post
Send private message

In the most recent "The Talk Show" podcast with John Gruber (Daring Fireball) and guest Jason Snell (Six Colours and formerly MacWorld) there's a very interesting discussion about web advertising. (Discussion starts at 1hr 53m)
Good stuff, covering the history of web ads and various ways it works and doesn't.

Cheers,
Joseph

12959 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4332

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 1353125 28-Jul-2015 09:16
Send private message

Dreal:
Geektastic: The thing is that it is clear that more or less nobody actually wants advertising.

I suspect that if it was possible to 'ad block' live TV at reasonable cost, almost all users would do so. The same for the internet.

Those advertising therefore ought to ask themselves why they persist in spending money on something that annoys so many....


Probably because its effective. Even if its intrusive. It's a love hate relationship, google search makes its money from paid ads, facebook the same. Live TV the same. Without that income, they wouldn't have the same budgets.

Consider this. HBO has a huge budget for game of thrones. What if everybody downloaded it, rather than watched or paid for it? There would be no game of thrones. It would not exist, at all. Everything works like this, music, tv, movies, services. 

We live in a golden age of television right now, where fortunately, people still watch paid TV, and free to air, without qualms. When that is gone, and all we have left is product placement, pop-up ads, and low budget shows, people will complain. Movies can make money from cinema, but already we see a decline in quality based on pirating - cape movies anyone? Same with music - musicians have to make their money from products, and shows, so the pop engine has ground it up. 

If your not prepared to either pay money, or watch ads, be prepared for a world where everything has the exact quality of freemium software in the google play store - or worse.


I don't understand how they make money from paid ads on Google - I for one simply ignore them BECAUSE they are paid adverts. As for FB, although I hardly use it and hate it with a passion, I have never actually seen an advert on it.

I'm fine with paying fair prices for content - I would far rather that than have it ruined with adverts.

As for live TV ads, well over 75% of them are so off-putting to me that they have the reverse of the intended effect and ensure I will never pay the company concerned a bean.





BDFL - Memuneh
63814 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 14274

Administrator
Trusted
Geekzone
Lifetime subscriber

  # 1353142 28-Jul-2015 09:22
One person supports this post
Send private message

Geektastic: I don't understand how they make money from paid ads on Google - I for one simply ignore them BECAUSE they are paid adverts. 


Paid ads revenue comes in many flavours. 

CPC pays when a click is recorded. TEXT Google ads are mainly this way
CPM pays when the ad is shown regardless of clicks. BANNERS Google ads are mainly this way
CPA pays when an action is completed (subscription, purchase). Affiliate links are mainly this way.

Most of the times, by just showing the ads publishers are already making some money. 

People have this incorrect view that ALL ads require a click. It's not this way.







12959 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4332

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 1353157 28-Jul-2015 09:38
Send private message

freitasm:
Geektastic: I don't understand how they make money from paid ads on Google - I for one simply ignore them BECAUSE they are paid adverts. 


Paid ads revenue comes in many flavours. 

CPC pays when a click is recorded. TEXT Google ads are mainly this way
CPM pays when the ad is shown regardless of clicks. BANNERS Google ads are mainly this way
CPA pays when an action is completed (subscription, purchase). Affiliate links are mainly this way.

Most of the times, by just showing the ads publishers are already making some money. 

People have this incorrect view that ALL ads require a click. It's not this way.





OK so maybe they get money by sticking them on screen unless AdBlock hides them!

Still never seen one on FB though so AdBlock must work well on that.





418 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 25


  # 1353176 28-Jul-2015 09:59
Send private message

Geektastic:
Dreal:
Geektastic: The thing is that it is clear that more or less nobody actually wants advertising.

I suspect that if it was possible to 'ad block' live TV at reasonable cost, almost all users would do so. The same for the internet.

Those advertising therefore ought to ask themselves why they persist in spending money on something that annoys so many....


Probably because its effective. Even if its intrusive. It's a love hate relationship, google search makes its money from paid ads, facebook the same. Live TV the same. Without that income, they wouldn't have the same budgets.

Consider this. HBO has a huge budget for game of thrones. What if everybody downloaded it, rather than watched or paid for it? There would be no game of thrones. It would not exist, at all. Everything works like this, music, tv, movies, services. 

We live in a golden age of television right now, where fortunately, people still watch paid TV, and free to air, without qualms. When that is gone, and all we have left is product placement, pop-up ads, and low budget shows, people will complain. Movies can make money from cinema, but already we see a decline in quality based on pirating - cape movies anyone? Same with music - musicians have to make their money from products, and shows, so the pop engine has ground it up. 

If your not prepared to either pay money, or watch ads, be prepared for a world where everything has the exact quality of freemium software in the google play store - or worse.


I don't understand how they make money from paid ads on Google - I for one simply ignore them BECAUSE they are paid adverts. As for FB, although I hardly use it and hate it with a passion, I have never actually seen an advert on it.

I'm fine with paying fair prices for content - I would far rather that than have it ruined with adverts.

As for live TV ads, well over 75% of them are so off-putting to me that they have the reverse of the intended effect and ensure I will never pay the company concerned a bean.


A fair number of people click on google adwords ads. I sometimes do if its the website I am looking for. Facebook ads are on the right. Adblocker blocks FB ads. 

If google didn't make money from ads, for its search, we wouldn't have android I don't think. It's a free OS, the only profit is the play store, and google ads. 

Obviously you don't respond to ads, but some people must, otherwise people wouldn't be doing them :P




Tap That - Great cheap tablets and tablet accessories. Windows and Android, NZ based

16930 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3355

Trusted

  # 1353183 28-Jul-2015 10:09
2 people support this post
Send private message

Why stop as web advertising? Other advertising might offer the same annoyances. The OP said that she finds some ads ok, that wont work as everyone is different. Why not block all advertsing instead of discriminating for or against web advertising? If the web is the way of the future then theoretically blocking web ads will be blocking all ads.

A new fangled widget is about to be released for sale, its amazing. It sold 5 as there was no way to advertsie it. No TV, no billboards, no newspaper, no internet.
5 people walked past the factory where there was a sign , inside the gate, they bought one, everyone else was excluded.

13982 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 6751

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 1353190 28-Jul-2015 10:29
One person supports this post
Send private message

With out advertising television, magazines, newspapers, the interwebs would be considerably more expensive and the content considerably worse.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic

Twitter and LinkedIn »



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Scientists unveil image of quantum entanglement
Posted 13-Jul-2019 06:00


Hackers to be challenged at University of Waikato
Posted 12-Jul-2019 21:34


OPPO Reno Z now available in New Zealand
Posted 12-Jul-2019 21:28


Sony introduces WF-1000XM3 wireless headphones with noise cancellation
Posted 8-Jul-2019 16:56


Xero announces new smarter tools, push into the North American market
Posted 19-Jun-2019 17:20


New report by Unisys shows New Zealanders want action by social platform companies and police to monitor social media sites
Posted 19-Jun-2019 17:09


ASB adds Google Pay option to contactless payments
Posted 19-Jun-2019 17:05


New Zealand PC Market declines on the back of high channel inventory, IDC reports
Posted 18-Jun-2019 17:35


Air New Zealand uses drones to inspect aircraft
Posted 17-Jun-2019 15:39


TCL Electronics launches its first-ever 8K TV
Posted 17-Jun-2019 15:18


E-scooter share scheme launches in Wellington
Posted 17-Jun-2019 12:34


Anyone can broadcast with Kordia Pop Up TV
Posted 13-Jun-2019 10:51


Volvo and Uber present production vehicle ready for self-driving
Posted 13-Jun-2019 10:47


100,000 customers connected to fibre broadband network through Enable
Posted 13-Jun-2019 10:35


5G uptake even faster than expected
Posted 12-Jun-2019 10:01



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.