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  # 1360017 6-Aug-2015 14:07
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wasabi2k:
Geektastic:
JimmyH:
Geektastic:

There is  no logic to taxing people spending money which you already taxed anyway: the whole concept of GST or VAT is as mad as a hatter unless you scrap income tax to compensate.


That's what they did do. Income tax rates were cut substantially at the same time GST was introduced.


Really? In that case they must have been obscene.

I had something more like a 15% flat rate in mind.


15% flat tax rate?

uh-huh. 

Is this before or after we abolish all publicly funded anything, everywhere?

I think there may be a few flaws in your thinking if you believe a 15% flat tax rate is achievable.




It's achievable. It just requires more people to actually be net contributors not net beneficiaries.





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  # 1360019 6-Aug-2015 14:09
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trig42:
shk292:
trig42:
michael001:
sleemanj:
shk292: What about if you have an "aunt" in USA who sends you "presents" from time to time?  Would these attract GST?


Yes.  There is no practical difference if the article is declared as a gift or not, over threshold, GST liable.

Indeed, most everything from China is marked as a Gift anyway.



So, at some stage in the future my mother in law will post over some shirts, socks and packets of miso soup from Japan for my birthday and then, one week before my birthday, I will get a letter in the post from a government department advising that I owe $28 in GST before my birthday present can be released?

That is f-ing moronic. What are we doing here? Creating ways to make ourselves miserable?




That already happens going the other way. The UK taxes gifts.

Try and send a gift to someone in the UK.
They will get the letter and have to jump through bureaucratic hoops to get their present.

You think NZ is bad, try dealing with English bureaucracy!

So, perhaps we should learn from that and not introduce the same sort of BS here
I have no objection to paying GST on imports; I do object to paying disproportionate administrative or other costs, or having imports delayed.  Similarly, if GST is going to be levied on import, it should be made possible to have it refunded on export - ie if I'm going to have to pay GST on the Lego set my kids get sent for Christmas, I should be able to reclaim it on the gift I send to my overseas nephew


Agreed, it is stupid.

I, too, have no issues with paying GST on anything I choose to import, but I will stop importing smaller items if I have to pay a fee on top of the tax (Or, I will just consolidate to make the fee a much smaller percentage, then on-sell some of the extra stuff I import - will the retailers be happy about that?).

I do not see how it will be workable collecting paltry amounts of GST without the fee though. There will be a fee.


The sane way would be to allow people to pay say $1000 up front and then just have the GST etc debited as the items come it. Much faster and more streamlined.





 
 
 
 


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  # 1360023 6-Aug-2015 14:18
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No, not sane because you could prank people by sending an overvalued parcel to them.

Sane way would be to send people an email or DM or facebook message that they had something then a portal where you got to see a photo of the item and the amount to pay and a button to authorize it being charged.




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  # 1360127 6-Aug-2015 16:26
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Geektastic: 

It's achievable. It just requires more people to actually be net contributors not net beneficiaries.


I'd say it would be more achievable if the corporates and the very wealthy actually paid tax.


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  # 1360218 6-Aug-2015 18:16
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frankv:
Geektastic: 

It's achievable. It just requires more people to actually be net contributors not net beneficiaries.


I'd say it would be more achievable if the corporates and the very wealthy actually paid tax.



That may help but you also need to get away from 5% of us paying 80% of the income tax.





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  # 1368539 18-Aug-2015 12:27
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Feedback sought: http://taxpolicy.ird.govt.nz/news/2015-08-18-feedback-sought-gst-and-online-purchases-paper

Focusing on anything that is not physical goods or money first.

I can see why people may be "angry/upset" over the government trying to get GST from non-physical goods purchased over the internet ... but it doesn't bother me yet



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  # 1368546 18-Aug-2015 12:43
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This is possibly going to affect overseas companies/people providing IT work to NZ clients.

Haven't read it though but the general idea is that if you sell more than 10k into NZ then the foreign company/supplier must register with nz tax authorities. 

That could be a deterrent and make it more difficult for nz companies to find specialists. 



 
 
 
 


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  # 1368606 18-Aug-2015 13:45
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surfisup1000: 
Haven't read it though but the general idea is that if you sell more than 10k into NZ then the foreign company/supplier must register with nz tax authorities. 


Yes.  A ridiculous idea.  How on earth can that possibly be enforced.  Even if they had some magic "supplier is selling more than 10k (NZD??, at what FX rate...) of services into NZ" detector, what are they going to do, send a sternly worded letter?  Circular filing bin.

And how are customers supposed to know if the vendor is or is not required to register, let alone if they have or not (well, I guess they will have to get GST numbers, and of course issue GST invoices!) .

This is clearly a low-hanging-fruit exercise I think, it will only be ever even remotely "enforced" on the big names, the Netflix, Apple, Google etc... who actually have a physical presence here of some description and who won't want to get caught up in a public shaming for not toeing the line.  That's not how tax is supposed to be.





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  # 1368608 18-Aug-2015 13:46
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surfisup1000: This is possibly going to affect overseas companies/people providing IT work to NZ clients.

Haven't read it though but the general idea is that if you sell more than 10k into NZ then the foreign company/supplier must register with nz tax authorities. 

That could be a deterrent and make it more difficult for nz companies to find specialists. 




As with all these desperate money grabs, there will be numerous unintended consequences and lots of fees for lawyers and accountants.

Better to tackle government waste like flag referenda....





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  # 1368634 18-Aug-2015 14:32
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Geektastic:
frankv:
Geektastic: 

It's achievable. It just requires more people to actually be net contributors not net beneficiaries.


I'd say it would be more achievable if the corporates and the very wealthy actually paid tax.



That may help but you also need to get away from 5% of us paying 80% of the income tax.


Actually, I see that as *how* we could get away from 5% of us paying 80% of the income tax.
 

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  # 1368649 18-Aug-2015 14:56
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Geektastic:
surfisup1000: This is possibly going to affect overseas companies/people providing IT work to NZ clients.

Haven't read it though but the general idea is that if you sell more than 10k into NZ then the foreign company/supplier must register with nz tax authorities. 

That could be a deterrent and make it more difficult for nz companies to find specialists. 




As with all these desperate money grabs, there will be numerous unintended consequences and lots of fees for lawyers and accountants.

Better to tackle government waste like flag referenda....


The flag referenda is there to distract the majority from looking too closely (if at all) at how the TPPA is going to impact their lives.

Its give a fluff piece for the TV/Radio to push out as news while ignoring whats actually going on.
The Rugby World cup is probably seen as a god send too.

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  # 1368658 18-Aug-2015 15:06
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surfisup1000: This is possibly going to affect overseas companies/people providing IT work to NZ clients.

Haven't read it though but the general idea is that if you sell more than 10k into NZ then the foreign company/supplier must register with nz tax authorities. 

That could be a deterrent and make it more difficult for nz companies to find specialists. 




we have a specialist X-Ray machine that has been quoted at about $12,000 to service and update.
The service engineers are in the UK, we have the only one in australasia I think, so there is no one closer.

If they have to account for GST, that will come at an extra fee, so although we can claim the GST back it may cost us $13,000+ for the privilege .

Also the work around is get US iTunes cards/ gift cards emailed here (someone overseas you trust buys it, scratches off the masking ink and send you the Serial Number by email)
Get a friend to buy it and post it.
etc.

And exactly HOW is NZ government going to tell Amazon what to do, they will say they have no presence in NZ so the NZ government can go F its self.

I am sure the government will get in more tax $, but I am equally sure its going to cost even more to collect it.

Its NOT going to stop people importing, the obscene mark-ups that local shop keeper believe they are entitled to will still make importing the cheaper option.


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  # 1368663 18-Aug-2015 15:09
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sir1963: 
Also the work around is get US iTunes cards/ gift cards emailed here (someone overseas you trust buys it, scratches off the masking ink and send you the Serial Number by email)
Get a friend to buy it and post it.



Apparantly that sort of thing (avoiding the GST by pretending to not be in NZ) would attract a fine of up to $25k if you were caught - just how you would be caught I don't know... GST audits for the general population?







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  # 1368710 18-Aug-2015 15:56
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sleemanj:
sir1963: 
Also the work around is get US iTunes cards/ gift cards emailed here (someone overseas you trust buys it, scratches off the masking ink and send you the Serial Number by email)
Get a friend to buy it and post it.



Apparantly that sort of thing (avoiding the GST by pretending to not be in NZ) would attract a fine of up to $25k if you were caught - just how you would be caught I don't know... GST audits for the general population?





Hell you just get $10 cards (under the threshold) mailed each week.

And if you have a friend who walks into an Apple store in the USA and buys the cards, no one is pretending anything.

The whole thing will have so many loopholes it won't be funny.

The GST was capped at $400 because the costs of collecting under this were higher than the tax collected. Retailers who were used to being able to put 300% and higher markups on goods are now complaining that overseas competition is killing their profits. TOUGH.

Its like my next Ryobi battery tool will be bought overseas, Bunnings has the sole agency in NZ and charges accordingly. There "we will beat it by 10%" Guarantee is worthless because they have made sure there is no competition. So, I will buy overseas because I already have the charger.

ALL my LED lights in my house are from China. Bought them for NZ$6 delivered when locals were charging $60.

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  # 1368714 18-Aug-2015 16:08
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Geektastic:
surfisup1000: This is possibly going to affect overseas companies/people providing IT work to NZ clients.

Haven't read it though but the general idea is that if you sell more than 10k into NZ then the foreign company/supplier must register with nz tax authorities. 

That could be a deterrent and make it more difficult for nz companies to find specialists. 




As with all these desperate money grabs, there will be numerous unintended consequences and lots of fees for lawyers and accountants.

Better to tackle government waste like flag referenda....


the flag referendum is the price of democracy

the govt of NZ wastes far far more money on things, than trying to get NZers to be more patriotic

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