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  # 1358469 4-Aug-2015 11:00
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itxtme:
Geektastic:
frankv:
Paracetamol is long off-patent - the TPP wouldn't affect availability or price of branded or generic common drugs like that.  Some drugs are even cheaper than the subsidised prescription charge - cheaper to buy over the counter if not restricted than at the set price.


Bear in mind that the US has been constantly increasing patent times, to the extent that they're now 70 years after the inventor's death.

So any new drug will NOT be available patent-free until well after it is obsolete.



I don't suppose it occurred to anyone to create a drugs company in NZ to benefit from that?



Huh?  Who would have thought drug manufacturing was so easy!  One good example is the new age hepatitis treatment drugs.  They are insanely expensive, as in prohibitively so, however the evidence for them is very strong.  By increasing patents effectively more people will die, and more people will live with horrific disease complications as NZ cant afford to fund them.  We are not talking about a drug price increasing by $100.  In some cases we are talking tens of thousands of dollars per patient.  And increasing access time for suffers by a further decade (or more maybe, its all a big secret).  To top that off here is a nice article on the sky high profits of drug companys to enjoy.  Phizer for example (biggest US drug company) had a 42% profit margin in 2013!!!


It's no harder here than anywhere else. 

The NZ bush is full of potential drugs: I know someone selling Totara extract to L'Oreal and aspirin came from tree bark originally I think.





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  # 1358545 4-Aug-2015 11:38
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^

And there are plenty of drug companies here...  The point is drug company profits are irrationally high, and without merit.  Just take a look at their R&D budgets vs their development budgets.  Its a mistake to increase their patent time, with the view of just opening up a new company here as being the answer.

 
 
 
 


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  # 1358589 4-Aug-2015 12:07
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Dreal:
nzkiwiman: As I mentioned I think in the AU thread

No New Zealand distributors bring in what I spend 90% of my money on into New Zealand
Therefore they cannot complain that they are not getting my money

Bring in the product and sell it into stores in New Zealand, and then if I don't purchase it then you have a right to complain.


I think for some reason your point is obscure to me. Do you mean DHL isn't new zealand owned, are you talking about logistics? 




What!
Who mentioned DHL or Logistics?


I purchase items from Japan that will NEVER be sold here in New Zealand
I also purchase items from the USA that no one sells in New Zealand

Therefore, the only way to get what I want is to import
No reseller in New Zealand is missing out on my money because what I want is not available here in New Zealand


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  # 1358788 4-Aug-2015 16:17
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Geektastic: 

I was in Shoe Clinic a few weeks ago. None of their high quality running shoes (as opposed to fashion junk) were less than $200 and some as much as $270.

My brother in California can get Levis for $25/pair that cost ten times that here. There is no logic behind that.


Shoe Clinic is a bad example.  They actually do more than your average shoe shop what with their treadmill running analysis thing - having someone trained up to do that dedicated to your individual service for 30 minutes cannot be cheap in the aggregate.  Foot Locker or stores like those I'd definitely agree with.

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  # 1358850 4-Aug-2015 17:10
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The move to lower the threshold may hurt the everyday consumer quite a bit. I dont count myself as an everyday consumer - most of my overseas purchases are techy items such as SD cards, flash drives, hard drives, SSDs, camera equipment or small items that actually are not available in NZ (such as phone cases etc). 

I have got quite a few friends who order clothing items online and it would be those people who would be hurt quite a bit from this move by the govt. A lot of the clothes they order, those styles are not available in NZ and now they have to pay an additional 25% to get what they want - I dont know how fair this move is on the consumer.

I havent gone through the entire thread - but has the government given any justification as to why they want to lower the threshold? What are they planning to do with the additional GST collected? Have they given any figures or estimates for how much they reckon they will increase their revenue?


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  # 1358868 4-Aug-2015 17:44
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Krishant007: 

I havent gone through the entire thread - but has the government given any justification as to why they want to lower the threshold? What are they planning to do with the additional GST collected? Have they given any figures or estimates for how much they reckon they will increase their revenue?



Possibly to pay for the extra costs on drugs if the TPP goes through. Although as they have previous said that the cost of collecting any amount under the current threshold doesn't cover the costs, it may only cover the costs of collection, eg. staff wages etc, so it may actually cost tax payers. 

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  # 1358877 4-Aug-2015 18:10
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wasabi2k:

If these "rip off merchants" are unwilling to change their business models, then why hasn't someone else? Surely if your model is sound a disruptive startup could come in, undercut everyone by buying directly from suppliers, then make all the money and push the others out of business?



They are. That's essentially what online sellers are doing now - drastically undercutting the established sellers with a lean supply chain based on realistic margins, cutting layers of ticket-clippers (import agents, distributors) out of the mix, and dispensing with absurd cost drivers (eg CBD retail space).

That's why the (generic) camera remote that the camera store wanted $89 for cost me $2.80 (including postage!) from China. Works fine too.

Most of the sound you hear is the death rattle of assorted dinosaurs as the evolution of commerce passes them by.

 
 
 
 


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  # 1358884 4-Aug-2015 18:24
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Krishant007:
I havent gone through the entire thread - but has the government given any justification as to why they want to lower the threshold? What are they planning to do with the additional GST collected? Have they given any figures or estimates for how much they reckon they will increase their revenue?



Part of the problem is that I doubt there will be any extra revenue to do anything with. In fact, there may even be a substantial (net) loss of revenue. The current threshold for tax collection was set at $60 (=$400 purchase price when no tariffs are involved) for a good reason -- because collecting tax below that amount costs more to collect than they get.

If they try to collect GST on $20 purchases like the aussies are mooting then when I import a $20 item they will need to be able to intercept it, check the value, securely warehouse it, invoice me, collect the payment from me, and then speedily release the item. In return for which they collect the princely sum of $3 (=$20 x 15%). I can't see that $3 remotely covering the costs they will incur in getting it.


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  # 1358937 4-Aug-2015 20:33
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JimmyH:
Part of the problem is that I doubt there will be any extra revenue to do anything with. In fact, there may even be a substantial (net) loss of revenue. The current threshold for tax collection was set at $60 (=$400 purchase price when no tariffs are involved) for a good reason -- because collecting tax below that amount costs more to collect than they get.

If they try to collect GST on $20 purchases like the aussies are mooting then when I import a $20 item they will need to be able to intercept it, check the value, securely warehouse it, invoice me, collect the payment from me, and then speedily release the item. In return for which they collect the princely sum of $3 (=$20 x 15%). I can't see that $3 remotely covering the costs they will incur in getting it.


That's $3 plus $47 biosecurity levy, plus $46 customs broker fees, actually.  Net result is that you will pay more in fees than the product cost - literally.

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  # 1358939 4-Aug-2015 20:45
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Kyanar:
JimmyH:
Part of the problem is that I doubt there will be any extra revenue to do anything with. In fact, there may even be a substantial (net) loss of revenue. The current threshold for tax collection was set at $60 (=$400 purchase price when no tariffs are involved) for a good reason -- because collecting tax below that amount costs more to collect than they get.

If they try to collect GST on $20 purchases like the aussies are mooting then when I import a $20 item they will need to be able to intercept it, check the value, securely warehouse it, invoice me, collect the payment from me, and then speedily release the item. In return for which they collect the princely sum of $3 (=$20 x 15%). I can't see that $3 remotely covering the costs they will incur in getting it.


That's $3 plus $47 biosecurity levy, plus $46 customs broker fees, actually.  Net result is that you will pay more in fees than the product cost - literally.

Probably, but that wouldn't be leveling the playing field and more like creating a trade barrier

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  # 1358943 4-Aug-2015 20:51
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I wonder what is the reason the government is considering this law? Is it pressure from the retailers?

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  # 1358978 4-Aug-2015 21:35
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Kyanar:
JimmyH:
Part of the problem is that I doubt there will be any extra revenue to do anything with. In fact, there may even be a substantial (net) loss of revenue. The current threshold for tax collection was set at $60 (=$400 purchase price when no tariffs are involved) for a good reason -- because collecting tax below that amount costs more to collect than they get.

If they try to collect GST on $20 purchases like the aussies are mooting then when I import a $20 item they will need to be able to intercept it, check the value, securely warehouse it, invoice me, collect the payment from me, and then speedily release the item. In return for which they collect the princely sum of $3 (=$20 x 15%). I can't see that $3 remotely covering the costs they will incur in getting it.


That's $3 plus $47 biosecurity levy, plus $46 customs broker fees, actually.  Net result is that you will pay more in fees than the product cost - literally.


there's no way they will get away with that



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  # 1358985 4-Aug-2015 22:07
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It would make more sense to lift GST from anything below $400 wherever it is sold - domestic or overseas.

There is  no logic to taxing people spending money which you already taxed anyway: the whole concept of GST or VAT is as mad as a hatter unless you scrap income tax to compensate.





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  # 1359017 4-Aug-2015 22:58
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JimmyH:
Krishant007:
I havent gone through the entire thread - but has the government given any justification as to why they want to lower the threshold? What are they planning to do with the additional GST collected? Have they given any figures or estimates for how much they reckon they will increase their revenue?



Part of the problem is that I doubt there will be any extra revenue to do anything with. In fact, there may even be a substantial (net) loss of revenue. The current threshold for tax collection was set at $60 (=$400 purchase price when no tariffs are involved) for a good reason -- because collecting tax below that amount costs more to collect than they get.

If they try to collect GST on $20 purchases like the aussies are mooting then when I import a $20 item they will need to be able to intercept it, check the value, securely warehouse it, invoice me, collect the payment from me, and then speedily release the item. In return for which they collect the princely sum of $3 (=$20 x 15%). I can't see that $3 remotely covering the costs they will incur in getting it.



That is pretty much what I said above. However when those rules were made, technology wasn't as advanced as it is now. So I am sure there is a way technology can make it more automated and cheaper.

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  # 1359112 5-Aug-2015 09:43
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The botanical extract ...

The first thing a pharma company (L'Oreal is cosmetics company) would do is try to figure out how to manufacture the active compound-x from the mighty totara.

For example aspirin is not extracted from willow bark, it is manufactured via a simple chemical synthesis. 

Even though willow is fast growing; cost, consistency, reliability and purity of supply favour synthesis.  Growing trees (open biological system) is too expensive and subject to too many risks.

If chemical synthesis isn't possible, the next step might be to whack the gene for producing the compound into a yeast and use fermentation (closed biological system) to produce it ...

If you can't manufacture a compound by some method, it's unlikely to even get to human trials.

Botanical extracts, (with a few exceptions) are for nutraceuticals only.


Geektastic: 

The NZ bush is full of potential drugs: I know someone selling Totara extract to L'Oreal and aspirin came from tree bark originally I think.




Mike

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