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  # 1372724 23-Aug-2015 22:45
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freitasm:
MikeB4: I believe breaking into sites like this or any web site and releasing the information is wrong. As for the purposes of the site that is purely up to those who use the service.


Well said.




Well I possibly disagree with you both here.  Whistle-blowing is legitimate and morally acceptable IMO - in the right circumstances it can justify the means.
Determining what those "right circumstances" should be is the problem.  I mean really - the AM leak/hack is big world news, and there's a huge ensuing debate/argument over the morality of infidelity. I doubt that debate would have any impact at all on deterring somebody inclined to want to go and have a bit on the side - at best they might need to get a bit more sneaky about it.  It's clearly not the right circumstances, there's no "common good" justification at all, the penalty some may suffer vastly outweighs the crime. 



 
 
 
 


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  # 1372739 23-Aug-2015 23:10
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DizzyD:
joker97: Guys what are we arguing about? I've lost the plot.


We arguing about using the word 'we' foot-in-mouth
Careful, Fred make take exception to your inappropriate use of the word.


There's something about the context of use of the plural pronoun, and my criticism of the way you used it, that you really don't seem to get.
As Joker is using it, there's no problem, clearly referring to "us" in this debate / argument.

On the other hand you were using it to claim that "we" know something, when in fact "you" thought something, but expressed that thought as if you were a self-appointed spokesperson for everybody else - and speaking fact.

"We all know what normally happens when there is immorality in a marriage"

I can assure you that "we" all don't.  I don't - and that's enough - even if nobody else shares my view.  It isn't fact, lots of things can happen.

One other thing I can assure you of is that the "royal we", pluralis majestatis, is mis-used by dodgy politicians,  preachers, and political extremists routinely, in some cases unconsciously as they're not aware of their own over-inflated sense of self-importance, and in other cases deliberately - "gathering the flock".

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  # 1372740 23-Aug-2015 23:13
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This is not even close to whistle-blowing.



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  # 1372742 23-Aug-2015 23:22
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Dratsab: This is not even close to whistle-blowing.


when you posted this, i was reminded of Len Brown




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


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  # 1372769 24-Aug-2015 03:02
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joker97:
Dratsab: This is not even close to whistle-blowing.


when you posted this, i was reminded of Len Brown

Why?

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# 1372770 24-Aug-2015 03:07
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Things are getting worse...


 
 
 
 


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  # 1372776 24-Aug-2015 06:56
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Fred99: 

There's something about the context of use of the plural pronoun, and my criticism of the way you used it, that you really don't seem to get.
As Joker is using it, there's no problem, clearly referring to "us" in this debate / argument.



When a debate starts heading down the road of spelling and/or use of peoples grammar its probably best to leave it right there.

No point in debating this with you. 
My choice of words are my own. Sometimes they sopt on, sometimes they a little off. As you quoted earlier, "we are all human" 

Fred99: We live in a  pretty good little island (more than one BTW) in the bottom of the Pacific.  One of the (if not "the") greatest things about it is that we have a damned fine close to world-leading record on human rights, liberty, separation of state from church, and low levels of corruption / high levels of personal freedom.  


As mentioned previously. I don't agree with your statement above. You included me in your "we statement"
and that's enough too... Get it???

I'm not being pedantic about that now. Let it go for pete's sake!!


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  # 1372780 24-Aug-2015 07:05
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Rikkitic:
joker97: If people feel the need to carry on arguing let's set some terms of engagement.

What: write exactly what it is that you disagree with

How: write what exactly is your opinion

Facts: if you have any facts feel free to post them under this heading


What I disagree with is the repeated use of the term 'immorality' when referring to adultery. This is a very loaded value judgement that makes all kinds of assumptions that may not be true. It is also quaintly archaic. Adultery is adultery. Whether it is immoral or not is another matter.



Instead why don't we try and agree on words that fit with  'immorality'? I think geekzoners will have a hard time agreeing on any such word! 

Here is the definition.


noun, plural immoralities.
1. immoral quality, character, or conduct; wickedness; evilness.
2. sexual misconduct.
3. an immoral act.


Perhaps we should be arguing with the dictionary. 


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  # 1372793 24-Aug-2015 07:57
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Why are you folks debating immorality when the fact is a group decided that it was upon them to break into a company, steal data and distribute that?

What the data represents is irrelevant at this point.

Some want to make this a religious discussion by dragging the morality bit up and down. This is the wrong thing to discuss on Geekzone.








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  # 1372814 24-Aug-2015 08:10
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freitasm: Why are you folks debating immorality when the fact is a group decided that it was upon them to break into a company, steal data and distribute that?

What the data represents is irrelevant at this point.

Some want to make this a religious discussion by dragging the morality bit up and down. This is the wrong thing to discuss on Geekzone.






Agreed what happened is no different to say breaking into Netflix, Trademe, Mighty Ape and releasing all the customer information. It is wrong, period.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


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  # 1372830 24-Aug-2015 08:54
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MikeB4:
freitasm: Why are you folks debating immorality when the fact is a group decided that it was upon them to break into a company, steal data and distribute that?

What the data represents is irrelevant at this point.

Some want to make this a religious discussion by dragging the morality bit up and down. This is the wrong thing to discuss on Geekzone.






Agreed what happened is no different to say breaking into Netflix, Trademe, Mighty Ape and releasing all the customer information. It is wrong, period.


Put simply, it is theft. I doubt anyone here will suggest that theft is appropriate simply because you dislike a thing.

The particular instance under discussion is reminiscent of the Puritans of the 16th and 17th centuries - we believe you are acting wrongly so we will impose our view on you by force.





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  # 1372843 24-Aug-2015 09:06
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freitasm: Why are you folks debating immorality when the fact is a group decided that it was upon them to break into a company, steal data and distribute that?

What the data represents is irrelevant at this point.

Some want to make this a religious discussion by dragging the morality bit up and down. This is the wrong thing to discuss on Geekzone.






I don't know that I agree. What if it was a child pornography site?

In that instance, while I wouldn't agree with the info being made public, I would have no issue with someone hacking the site and providing the info to the police.

But what if the police then said they can't act on it as the info was obtained illegally? Is releasing it to the public OK then?






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  # 1372871 24-Aug-2015 09:36
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Paul1977:
freitasm: Why are you folks debating immorality when the fact is a group decided that it was upon them to break into a company, steal data and distribute that?

What the data represents is irrelevant at this point.

Some want to make this a religious discussion by dragging the morality bit up and down. This is the wrong thing to discuss on Geekzone.






I don't know that I agree. What if it was a child pornography site?

In that instance, while I wouldn't agree with the info being made public, I would have no issue with someone hacking the site and providing the info to the police.

But what if the police then said they can't act on it as the info was obtained illegally? Is releasing it to the public OK then?




What, so that the public can get their pitchforks out and lynch the people on the list, before finding out that the list was somehow wrong and the person they hanged from the tree is actually innocent?





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  # 1372877 24-Aug-2015 09:41
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Geektastic:
Paul1977:
freitasm: Why are you folks debating immorality when the fact is a group decided that it was upon them to break into a company, steal data and distribute that?

What the data represents is irrelevant at this point.

Some want to make this a religious discussion by dragging the morality bit up and down. This is the wrong thing to discuss on Geekzone.






I don't know that I agree. What if it was a child pornography site?

In that instance, while I wouldn't agree with the info being made public, I would have no issue with someone hacking the site and providing the info to the police.

But what if the police then said they can't act on it as the info was obtained illegally? Is releasing it to the public OK then?




What, so that the public can get their pitchforks out and lynch the people on the list, before finding out that the list was somehow wrong and the person they hanged from the tree is actually innocent?


OK, so forget the last bit. What about illegally hacking the site and giving details to police? It is still illegally hacking, is that wrong?

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