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JWR

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  # 1371874 21-Aug-2015 22:35

mattwnz:
wasabi2k:
MikeB4:
wasabi2k:
Rikkitic:
wasabi2k: 

And there is a big leap from "impure thought", which I 100% agree almost anyone has, to signing up for a cheating website.

As always, nothing is secret on the internet.


As always, the private relationships of other people are no-one else's business and the way they conduct their sex lives does not require anyone else's approval.



No it doesn't, nor does it stop me from feeling like they got what they deserved.


So some group decides they hate Geek Sites and decide to hack GZ then issue an ultimatum that GZ close then decide to release all user details o the Web. I guess that is deserved.


No, I don't think I am explaining myself.

I have zero sympathy for the people having their names and emails exposed for being members of AshleyMadison.

At the same time I fully acknowledge that what the hackers did was illegal and the inevitable collapse of AshleyMadison will hurt a lot of employees financially and otherwise. The hackers should be caught and charged appropriately. What they did isn't *right* or *good*.









It is probably a good example that nothing you do online is really 100% safe. I hate to think if these services were automatically linked to facebook, like many online systems now are, and people basically put all their informtion on their life online for all to see. They may thing it is private, but not if it is hacked. Your average person using the internet really don't have a clue, as the average intelligence and knowledge of people isn't that high.


Of course websites like AM are linked.

Almost every website you visit links you to many others.

I don't know about 'average intelligence' . But, I think above-average apathy is more to blame.

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  # 1371912 22-Aug-2015 07:54
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JWR: 

Well that's Stuff... reporting a story about a man being blackmailed over releasing info that has already been leaked.

That make sense?


No. This is about other opportunists now using that leaked data to blackmail people that had used the service.

 
 
 
 


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  # 1371950 22-Aug-2015 10:22
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DizzyD: What I find very interesting is that so far nobody has criticized the Ashley Madison website, and their business ethics. 

The hackers have been criticized. The public and media have been criticized, the adulterers who signed up have been criticized (rightly so).

But what about Ashley Madison? 

They the ones that were charging money (to delete peoples profiles), some people who did not even signup. They were lying to their customers, taking money to delete profiles then not deleting them. Thats the real evil here is it not? I'm really surprised that their website is still up and its business as usual.

Kudos to the hackers that did this to Ashley Madison. 

Ashley Madison is a morally dubious enterprise.  The hackers in this case get the moral high ground IMO. Yes the adulterers deserve their privacy, but seriously, its 2015 and if people are signing up to a service like this using their real email addresses/credit cards, well then they need help with more than just their marriages. 



There are people in the world who think homosexuality is 'morally dubious' but we enact laws to ride roughshod over their view on that. Morals are entirely elastic. 50 years ago, having bastard children was regarded as morally dubious - today we hand over taxpayer cash to people who do it.

Not everyone thinks having affairs is morally dubious: it is not something I would do personally but then neither are my aforementioned examples.

It's more morally dubious to hack the site and publish what should be private data IMV.





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  # 1371995 22-Aug-2015 13:12
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I don't think anyone has any right to pass judgement on other people's morals. On their behaviour, yes, if it affects others in a significant way, but whether someone has affairs or not is in the private sphere - no-one else's business.
 




I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  # 1372003 22-Aug-2015 13:43
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Geektastic: 

There are people in the world who think homosexuality is 'morally dubious' but we enact laws to ride roughshod over their view on that. Morals are entirely elastic. 50 years ago, having bastard children was regarded as morally dubious - today we hand over taxpayer cash to people who do it.

Not everyone thinks having affairs is morally dubious: it is not something I would do personally but then neither are my aforementioned examples.

It's more morally dubious to hack the site and publish what should be private data IMV.


So if I understand you correctly. Hackers will become more socially accepted in the years to come then? You say hackers today are 'more morally dubious'? No different then to a person all those years ago and their views on homosexuality etc.

Having affairs may not be 'morally dubious'. But it is lying, cheating and being unfaithful to a spouse you promised to be faithful to. Maybe a lying cheating bastard is a better description. Nothing to do with morals then.

You reply is valid for New Zealand. But remember, some countries still criminalize adultery. Its illegal in some states across the united states. In Massachusetts an adulterer can get jail time(not sure if its been done in many years, but still law). In many countries, though not illegal, it can have a devastating affect on a person applying for custody of their children. The adulterer won't stand a chance.

We live on a little island in the bottom of the pacific. Our laws/morals are very different to the real world. 



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  # 1372020 22-Aug-2015 14:20
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Um, my question would be 'so what'? If someone lives in a country that stones adulterers, and they put their name up on an adultery website, you might question their judgement but that still has nothing to do with their morals, which are still none of your business. If someone is a lying cheating bastard that is also none of your business. It only becomes your business if they damage you by lying or cheating. It is their actions that you have a right to pass judgement on, not their morals.
 




I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  # 1372023 22-Aug-2015 14:36
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MikeB4:

So some group decides they hate Geek Sites and decide to hack GZ then issue an ultimatum that GZ close then decide to release all user details o the Web. I guess that is deserved.


The difference is that *I* don't care whether (a) I'm identified as a GZ member, nor (b) if any details I've put up on GZ are published.


 
 
 
 


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  # 1372039 22-Aug-2015 15:46
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DizzyD:
Geektastic: 

There are people in the world who think homosexuality is 'morally dubious' but we enact laws to ride roughshod over their view on that. Morals are entirely elastic. 50 years ago, having bastard children was regarded as morally dubious - today we hand over taxpayer cash to people who do it.

Not everyone thinks having affairs is morally dubious: it is not something I would do personally but then neither are my aforementioned examples.

It's more morally dubious to hack the site and publish what should be private data IMV.


So if I understand you correctly. Hackers will become more socially accepted in the years to come then? You say hackers today are 'more morally dubious'? No different then to a person all those years ago and their views on homosexuality etc.

Having affairs may not be 'morally dubious'. But it is lying, cheating and being unfaithful to a spouse you promised to be faithful to. Maybe a lying cheating bastard is a better description. Nothing to do with morals then.

You reply is valid for New Zealand. But remember, some countries still criminalize adultery. Its illegal in some states across the united states. In Massachusetts an adulterer can get jail time(not sure if its been done in many years, but still law). In many countries, though not illegal, it can have a devastating affect on a person applying for custody of their children. The adulterer won't stand a chance.

We live on a little island in the bottom of the pacific. Our laws/morals are very different to the real world. 




We live in a  pretty good little island (more than one BTW) in the bottom of the Pacific.  One of the (if not "the") greatest things about it is that we have a damned fine close to world-leading record on human rights, liberty, separation of state from church, and low levels of corruption / high levels of personal freedom.  It ain't perfect - but an ongoing work in progress - and it's generally been heading in the right direction for a long time - even when we have centre-right governments.  That's a bloody good thing - but you're scaring me a bit - I'm concerned that perhaps you don't feel the same way!

I sure as hell hope that with your other comments that those "exposed" by this leak will "get what they deserve" because they "committed the greater evil" (of adultery) - you aren't suggesting that just because draconian non-secular laws exist in other countries, those breaking them deserve to be punished - because "the law is the law".  That's how you're coming across to me.




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  # 1372051 22-Aug-2015 16:37
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DizzyD:
Geektastic: 

There are people in the world who think homosexuality is 'morally dubious' but we enact laws to ride roughshod over their view on that. Morals are entirely elastic. 50 years ago, having bastard children was regarded as morally dubious - today we hand over taxpayer cash to people who do it.

Not everyone thinks having affairs is morally dubious: it is not something I would do personally but then neither are my aforementioned examples.

It's more morally dubious to hack the site and publish what should be private data IMV.


So if I understand you correctly. Hackers will become more socially accepted in the years to come then? You say hackers today are 'more morally dubious'? No different then to a person all those years ago and their views on homosexuality etc.

Having affairs may not be 'morally dubious'. But it is lying, cheating and being unfaithful to a spouse you promised to be faithful to. Maybe a lying cheating bastard is a better description. Nothing to do with morals then.

You reply is valid for New Zealand. But remember, some countries still criminalize adultery. Its illegal in some states across the united states. In Massachusetts an adulterer can get jail time(not sure if its been done in many years, but still law). In many countries, though not illegal, it can have a devastating affect on a person applying for custody of their children. The adulterer won't stand a chance.

We live on a little island in the bottom of the pacific. Our laws/morals are very different to the real world. 




You assume that all the people on there are married (there is no requirement for that - people could just be using the site to meet other people for affairs in a broader sense) and/or that all relationships regard affairs as bad.





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  # 1372057 22-Aug-2015 17:10
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I gather that even in swinging couples, a *secret* affair is considered bad.

If someone's AM membership wasn't secret, there could be no furore over it being revealed.


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  # 1372100 22-Aug-2015 18:55
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Fred99: 

One of the (if not "the") greatest things about it is that we have a damned fine close to world-leading record on human rights


Fred99: It ain't perfect - but an ongoing work in progress - and it's generally been heading in the right direction for a long time - even when we have centre-right governments.  That's a bloody good thing - but you're scaring me a bit - I'm concerned that perhaps you don't feel the same way!


You concerned that I don't feel the same way? WOW. You do realize that in such a society that you describe, one of those basic human rights is the tolerance of people that possibly do not feel the same way!!!! Its about accepting and living with people that are maybe a little different! Why is your way the right way? Big contradictions in your post! 

Fred99: I sure as hell hope that with your other comments that those "exposed" by this leak will "get what they deserve" because they "committed the greater evil" (of adultery) - you aren't suggesting that just because draconian non-secular laws exist in other countries, those breaking them deserve to be punished - because "the law is the law".  That's how you're coming across to me.



Please quote me on the above. I did not say that. Read my posts again, I actually said that the adulterers deserve their privacy. 

Yes I said that the adulterers are the bigger evil. Because yes it is. 



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  # 1372106 22-Aug-2015 19:09
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DizzyD:
Fred99: 

One of the (if not "the") greatest things about it is that we have a damned fine close to world-leading record on human rights


Fred99: It ain't perfect - but an ongoing work in progress - and it's generally been heading in the right direction for a long time - even when we have centre-right governments.  That's a bloody good thing - but you're scaring me a bit - I'm concerned that perhaps you don't feel the same way!


You concerned that I don't feel the same way? WOW. You do realize that in such a society that you describe, one of those basic human rights is the tolerance of people that possibility do not feel the same way!!!! Its about accepting and living with people that are maybe a little different! Why is your way the right way? Big contradictions in your post! 

Fred99: I sure as hell hope that with your other comments that those "exposed" by this leak will "get what they deserve" because they "committed the greater evil" (of adultery) - you aren't suggesting that just because draconian non-secular laws exist in other countries, those breaking them deserve to be punished - because "the law is the law".  That's how you're coming across to me.



Please quote me on the above. I did not say that. Read my posts again, I actually said that the adulterers deserve their privacy. 

DizzyD: 

Infidelity is the bigger evil here. And while I don't support what has happened and the way at how these people are being exposed. They only have themselves to blame. 



Yes I said that the adulterers are the bigger evil. Because yes it is. 



In your opinion.
And I strongly disagree - as does the law in our (free) country.  Hacking is illegal, and adultery isn't.  Breach of privacy is illegal, and adultery isn't.  Blackmail is illegal, and adultery isn't.



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  # 1372127 22-Aug-2015 19:12
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  # 1372130 22-Aug-2015 19:18
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Rikkitic: Um, my question would be 'so what'? If someone lives in a country that stones adulterers, and they put their name up on an adultery website, you might question their judgement but that still has nothing to do with their morals, which are still none of your business. If someone is a lying cheating bastard that is also none of your business. It only becomes your business if they damage you by lying or cheating. It is their actions that you have a right to pass judgement on, not their morals.
 


Morals need a source to be compared against. What is your source on the argument of morals?

Actually, unless you are a religious, or believe in some sort of God. There is no such thing as morals! If you admit there is such a thing as morals well then you are saying that there is such a thing called evil. And by that I assume there is a thing called good. You are therefore assuming that there is such a thing in life that is as an absolute and unchanging moral law. Good and Evil. So whats your source on your argument of morals? How do you differentiate between good and evil? Not a trick question? Just curious. I assume you are a man/woman of religion?

Fred99: 

In your opinion.
And I strongly disagree - as does the law in our (free) country.  Hacking is illegal, and adultery isn't.  Breach of privacy is illegal, and adultery isn't.  Blackmail is illegal, and adultery isn't.




So your source of argument, or moral law, is whats legal/illegal? You have 100% faith in our government then?



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  # 1372131 22-Aug-2015 19:20
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freitasm: Putting more fire on the discussion...



[sarcasm] And people complained gay marriage would destroy the sanctity of the matrimony. [/sarcasm]




LOL. Very true! 

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