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Topic # 180839 23-Sep-2015 14:57
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So National is going to pick up a green bill and push it through urgency to get the red peak flag added to the referendum.

Why didn't they make their own bill?

What happened to sticking to "the process"?


What next?  when the results show majority support for the red peak flag will they put another bill thru urgency to change the flag to one of Kyle Lockwoods design???

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  Reply # 1392756 23-Sep-2015 15:03
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Personally, I don't even like the Red Peak flag. Actually, I don't like any of the designs.

I also doubt there will be majority support for any, including the "Red Peak", of them once "Just keep the existing bloody flag" becomes a option.

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  Reply # 1392759 23-Sep-2015 15:04
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And what if the referendum comes with a "No flag changes, thanks"... Will people complain and disregard the process again?



 
 
 
 


n4

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  Reply # 1392763 23-Sep-2015 15:09
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freitasm: And what if the referendum comes with a "No flag changes, thanks"... Will people complain and disregard the process again?


Umm.. it does, doesn't it? Second stage of the referendum of course.




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  Reply # 1392766 23-Sep-2015 15:12
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n4: Umm.. it does, doesn't it? Second stage of the referendum of course.

Yes, but apparently some people want it to be asked on the first stage. That doesn't make sense though; I can't legitimately vote for a change if I don't yet know which option it would change to!

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  Reply # 1392773 23-Sep-2015 15:16
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Hence why I think this is all bullshit.

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  Reply # 1392774 23-Sep-2015 15:19
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I have already made up my mind about this whole thing.

First referendum: I will be voting the worst of the lot, Andrew Fyfe's koru flag. If I'm busy, I won't bother to vote at all. 

Second referendum: Current NZ flag

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  Reply # 1392783 23-Sep-2015 15:26
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DizzyD: I have already made up my mind about this whole thing.

First referendum: I will be voting the worst of the lot, Andrew Fyfe's koru flag. If I'm busy, I won't bother to vote at all. 

Second referendum: Current NZ flag


Why vote if you are not taking it seriously?




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n4

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  Reply # 1392785 23-Sep-2015 15:27
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DizzyD: I have already made up my mind about this whole thing.

First referendum: I will be voting the worst of the lot, Andrew Fyfe's koru flag. If I'm busy, I won't bother to vote at all. 

Second referendum: Current NZ flag


Conversely I will be voting for whatever wins the first referendum, even if it's the koru.




Huawei Mate 7, on 2degrees

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  Reply # 1392788 23-Sep-2015 15:29
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Have to say I really do like Red Peak compared to the other four - but not yet sure if I would vote for it against the current flag.

Run it in the poll then run it up the pole.

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  Reply # 1392843 23-Sep-2015 15:44
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Why not

Q1: Which of these 5 flags is your preferred alternative to the current NZ flag?

Q2: Do you want the NZ flag changed to ANY one of these alternative flags*?


If the answer to Q2 is > 50% 'No' the second referendum doesnt need to take place, thus saving half the cost of the entire exercise.   If its yes you have still achieved whats needed from the first referendum.

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  Reply # 1392845 23-Sep-2015 15:45
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The inclusion of this 'Red Peak' flag really, really irks me.

Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong, but shouldn't you have to be of a voting age before signing a petition?

Effectively, this flag option has now made into the final list on the back of an online petition through social media which reports say up to 50,000 people signed. Great. Of those 50,000 people that signed the petition, how many will be eligible to vote come decision time?

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  Reply # 1392853 23-Sep-2015 15:54
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MikeB4:
DizzyD: I have already made up my mind about this whole thing.

First referendum: I will be voting the worst of the lot, Andrew Fyfe's koru flag. If I'm busy, I won't bother to vote at all. 

Second referendum: Current NZ flag


Why vote if you are not taking it seriously?


I don't necessarily agree with this approach, but it does seem it could be an effective way to try and ensure the flag will not change. Yeah it does seem like gaming the system, but it doesn't mean they're not taking it seriously - it's not unlike tactical\strategic voting in a normal election IMO. 

n4

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  Reply # 1392856 23-Sep-2015 15:58
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itxtme: Why not

Q1: Which of these 5 flags is your preferred alternative to the current NZ flag?

Q2: Do you want the NZ flag changed to ANY one of these alternative flags*?


If the answer to Q2 is > 50% 'No' the second referendum doesnt need to take place, thus saving half the cost of the entire exercise.   If its yes you have still achieved whats needed from the first referendum.


Because I think the support for change will increase once all the voices are united behind one choice, and people have a chance (~four months) to consider their position, and the reasons for change. I don't think people will really give it the right level of consideration until they are faced with the simple choice of old vs new.

Also the cost of the exercise at $26m is 0.035% of annual government revenue/spend so I don't see why everyone is getting so worked up over it. Yes it is a lot of money (for one person) but a drop in the bucket for us a nation, given the potential significance.




Huawei Mate 7, on 2degrees

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  Reply # 1392861 23-Sep-2015 16:04
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n4:
DizzyD: I have already made up my mind about this whole thing.

First referendum: I will be voting the worst of the lot, Andrew Fyfe's koru flag. If I'm busy, I won't bother to vote at all. 

Second referendum: Current NZ flag


Conversely I will be voting for whatever wins the first referendum, even if it's the koru.


There probably will not be a second referendum. 

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  Reply # 1392866 23-Sep-2015 16:06
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DizzyD:
n4:
DizzyD: I have already made up my mind about this whole thing.

First referendum: I will be voting the worst of the lot, Andrew Fyfe's koru flag. If I'm busy, I won't bother to vote at all. 

Second referendum: Current NZ flag


Conversely I will be voting for whatever wins the first referendum, even if it's the koru.


There probably will not be a second referendum. 


How do you figure?  It's written into law... first referendum will select the most popular alternative design, second referendum will be to choose between existing and alternative.

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