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  Reply # 1398021 1-Oct-2015 14:08
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Michaelfjs:
dafman:


Another example of cherry picking flags to prove a statement about Red Peak?

Where is Canada's flag?


I think the image still makes a pretty good point, and think the inclusion of Canada's flag would've actually strengthened that point. It's an example of a flag that includes its national symbol, but still works well as a flag.

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  Reply # 1398057 1-Oct-2015 14:49
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Although it has a symbol, the Canadian flag is a very clean flag design, much like the Red Peak, and not at all like the current New Zealand flag, or the other proposed flags.

BTW the Canadian flag, is this what you guys would want?




 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1398096 1-Oct-2015 15:47
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dafman:


I'll comment on this as well.  It illustrates that concept of flag vs logo.

NZ is more than some stars anyone in the southern hemisphere can see, or various versions of a fern that grows elsewhere too.
Only the kiwi bird is specific to NZ.

I genuinely like the red peak flag.  I agree it doesn't have to be red down below, but from a volcanic perspective it tends to make sense.
As mentioned before, with the likes of the central volcanic plateau and Auckland's geography, and Christchurch also, there are forces at work underneath this country.

I don't know that NZ was really calling for a flag change.  It certainly wasn't being widely discussed to my knowledge in advance.
The process seemed, and still does seem naf to me, but despite all that, I quite like the red peak design.

It looks like a traditional flag, as in it's got some geometric shapes and bold colours and is clearly identifiable from the others.
It may not scream new Zealand based on content, but as others are illustrating, that's what the kiwi or silver fern type emblems/patches are for.
As a flag, be that some ridiculous naval or game of thrones style period war banner, it does suit quite well.

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  Reply # 1398122 1-Oct-2015 16:22
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jarledb: 
I'm guessing that evidence lives together with the polling results you referred to earlier and still have not produced?


Actually, it exists multiple times in this thread. I'm not going to bother responding further to someone who isn't even going to bother to check before demanding people produce repeatedly produced by numerous individuals data simply because it doesn't support their view.

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  Reply # 1398169 1-Oct-2015 17:18
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Kyanar:
jarledb: 
I'm guessing that evidence lives together with the polling results you referred to earlier and still have not produced?


Actually, it exists multiple times in this thread. I'm not going to bother responding further to someone who isn't even going to bother to check before demanding people produce repeatedly produced by numerous individuals data simply because it doesn't support their view.


You really should back up your statements with links. I have gone through the thread and looked at all the links (I was looking for actual hyperlinks, so might have missed text-links that are not linked up). Could not see anything to the poll you mention here:

Kyanar: 
But it's not democracy, and it's not a small price to pay. In the public polling, 31 other options did better than Red Peak.


So maybe you could be helpful and point me to it?

As to the evidence it was rigged. This is the story you have posted to corroborate that: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11518994

If you read the story (in detail) you will see that the single source to that claim is Grant McLachlan, a guy that has his own flag in the contest. I am sure he is a reliable source.

Then feel free to read on in that story. Let me quote for you:

Mr Seymour, one of those who accepted the petition, said it was not presented to Parliament and would have been thoroughly checked if it needed to be. However, he said he believed the signatures reflected a popular groundswell which had grown "organically". A graph had been built around the dates signatures were added and appeared to match public discussion, he said. "There's a lot of evidence of natural behaviour."


So yeah, I don't see that story backing up your "Except there's evidence that the petition demanding it be added was rigged".




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  Reply # 1398183 1-Oct-2015 17:27
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jarledb:
Kyanar:
jarledb: 
I'm guessing that evidence lives together with the polling results you referred to earlier and still have not produced?


Actually, it exists multiple times in this thread. I'm not going to bother responding further to someone who isn't even going to bother to check before demanding people produce repeatedly produced by numerous individuals data simply because it doesn't support their view.


You really should back up your statements with links. I have gone through the thread and looked at all the links (I was looking for actual hyperlinks, so might have missed text-links that are not linked up). Could not see anything to the poll you mention here:

Kyanar: 
But it's not democracy, and it's not a small price to pay. In the public polling, 31 other options did better than Red Peak.


So maybe you could be helpful and point me to it?

As to the evidence it was rigged. This is the story you have posted to corroborate that: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11518994

If you read the story (in detail) you will see that the single source to that claim is Grant McLachlan, a guy that has his own flag in the contest. I am sure he is a reliable source.

Then feel free to read on in that story. Let me quote for you:

Mr Seymour, one of those who accepted the petition, said it was not presented to Parliament and would have been thoroughly checked if it needed to be. However, he said he believed the signatures reflected a popular groundswell which had grown "organically". A graph had been built around the dates signatures were added and appeared to match public discussion, he said. "There's a lot of evidence of natural behaviour."


So yeah, I don't see that story backing up your "Except there's evidence that the petition demanding it be added was rigged".


Even if it was rigged, putting aside for a moment that it wasn't, but, for arguments sake, if it had been, then it will die a death when the votes are counted. End of.

However, if it doesn't die a death, and is voted number one, then, irrespective of its history, it's the flag the majority want. End of.






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  Reply # 1398203 1-Oct-2015 18:18
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dafman: 
Even if it was rigged, putting aside for a moment that it wasn't, but, for arguments sake, if it had been, then it will die a death when the votes are counted. End of.

However, if it doesn't die a death, and is voted number one, then, irrespective of its history, it's the flag the majority want. End of.


Yes, the vote will settle it once and for all. Simple as that.




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  Reply # 1398314 1-Oct-2015 22:12
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You know what? Screw it. It appears that Red Peak supporters refuse to believe anything that doesn't fit their pre-established view point. I'm out.

I'll be voting for "Keep the Flag", mostly so I can see the end of this stupid debate.

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  Reply # 1398328 1-Oct-2015 22:48
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Kyanar: You know what? Screw it. It appears that Red Peak supporters refuse to believe anything that doesn't fit their pre-established view point. I'm out.


Thats strange, because to me it seems like that is whats happening with you.

Cheers! :)




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  Reply # 1398426 2-Oct-2015 08:02
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I'm over the whole flag debate. 

I liked one of the fern/stars versions (the black/blue one) but the Red Peak debacle has completely hacked me off. 

A) Shouldn't have been included
B) Looks naff
C) Red Peak supporters are again a hugely vocal minority and are much like the wowsers that try evertything to bend NZ to their own way of thinking (I'm thinking of the banning of bullrush and making everyone a winner in kids' sport etc). 

I'll likely vote to keep the current flag just to spite the Red Peak Brigade. 






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  Reply # 1398435 2-Oct-2015 08:16
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I don't like the colours of the stars flags, and maybe a combo of one and colours from another etc could have worked better for me.  Having two versions of these in the top 4 is a joke.

$26million seems incredible, given the lack of public push for change.  More now no doubt to include the Red Peak option.  Process wise, it's all quite amusing, if you forget about the money side of it.

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  Reply # 1398461 2-Oct-2015 09:13
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Great news for existing flag. Now receiving international support.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/72614231/bieber-wades-into-nz-flag-debate

n4

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Reply # 1398474 2-Oct-2015 09:43
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dafman: Great news for existing flag. Now receiving international support.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/72614231/bieber-wades-into-nz-flag-debate


Better version here:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11522272

"He told the station Americans and Canadians would never change their flags.

 

The Canadian star was apparently unaware that Canada changed its flag to the iconic maple leaf design in 1965.

 

Previously, its flag - like New Zealand's - had featured a Union Jack in the top-left corner."





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  Reply # 1398493 2-Oct-2015 09:51
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jarledb: Although it has a symbol, the Canadian flag is a very clean flag design, much like the Red Peak, and not at all like the current New Zealand flag, or the other proposed flags.

BTW the Canadian flag, is this what you guys would want?


An obese kiwi. What a perfect image to capture the true essence  of modern New Zealand! Let's start a Facebook campaign to get it included.





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 1398653 2-Oct-2015 12:09
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Handsomedan: I'm over the whole flag debate. 

I liked one of the fern/stars versions (the black/blue one) but the Red Peak debacle has completely hacked me off. 

A) Shouldn't have been included
B) Looks naff
C) Red Peak supporters are again a hugely vocal minority and are much like the wowsers that try evertything to bend NZ to their own way of thinking (I'm thinking of the banning of bullrush and making everyone a winner in kids' sport etc). 

I'll likely vote to keep the current flag just to spite the Red Peak Brigade. 




I think those screaming that Red Peak should not have been included are just as vocal a minority. As many have pointed out; if people don't want it, they won't vote for it.

The only reason to be upset about it's inclusion is if you think it might win, and if it is popular enough that it might win then it should be included.

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