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  Reply # 1394943 26-Sep-2015 17:20
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Perhaps we should have a transparent flag - get rid of all potentially offensive symbolism.  My design is below.

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  Reply # 1394985 26-Sep-2015 18:11
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shk292: Personally, I hate the red peak - it seems more like a trade union motif than a flag for NZ, which is presumably why Little Andy is so keen on it.  And the whole push to include it just seems due to a bunch of petulant Key-bashers who want to sabotage the process.

There's no way we should be expected to decide whether we want a new flag until the alternative is chosen; until we know the alternative, the only sensible answer to "do you want to change the flag?" is "maybe".

I can't see why people can't just let the process run.  The money expended doesn't just disappear in a puff of smoke - it gets paid to various agencies and recycled into the economy


My main issue with it is lack of real meaning to it, relating it to NZers. But if you look at most flags, unless it has the countries national emblem on it, most don't mean much by just looking at it.

 
 
 
 


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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1395038 26-Sep-2015 20:25
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shk292: Personally, I hate the red peak - it seems more like a trade union motif than a flag for NZ, which is presumably why Little Andy is so keen on it.  And the whole push to include it just seems due to a bunch of petulant Key-bashers who want to sabotage the process.


Key-bashers like Rodney Hide and Act party leader David Semour, yeah right. Trade Union motif, really?


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  Reply # 1395105 27-Sep-2015 08:32
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bluedisk:
Kyanar: 

 the creator had a bit of a tanty and got a "groundswell" of people on Facebook and Reddit to support hijacking the democratic process. And as it happens, the petition was rigged anyway. I'm actually embarrassed for my country.


Factually incorrect: the designer Aaaron Dustin never had a "tanty" and got a "groundswell" of people on Facebook and Reddit to support hijacking the democratic process. 

Rowan Simpson who is not the designer started it all rolling with a blog called Dear John http://rowansimpson.com/2015/09/02/dear-john/

http://thespinoff.co.nz/13-09-2015/the-flag-i-started-the-red-peak-surge-because-i-love-the-silver-fern/

H
ow is a groundswell of opinion on social media sites undermining democracy? Its one of the few ways in this day and age where individuals get heard. I always thought that changing the flag would be a long and sometimes painful affair as we listen to others views who we may not agree with in the hope of finding something better that represents us all in the future.

Some people just don't like change, others don't like the flag designs presented. others the process. Thats all fine, but lets not be childish about the discussion.


I would hardly say that ground swell of support on the likes of Facebook  is a swell of public opinion and a reliable  public poll .  We may as well say that talkback radio  comments  should be taken as public opinion polls as well.

 

You seem to be the main fan boy of Peak Flag here..




Regards,

Old3eyes


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  Reply # 1395153 27-Sep-2015 10:35
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Kyanar:
eracode: 
No - they have publicly said they have no issues with the possibility of Red Peak becoming the NZ flag. They also complimented NZ on looking at a distinctive and elegant design which would not be confused with their logo - or words to that effect.


However, there is a company - Arrow Uniforms - in NZ with a near identical logo, which according to NBR are licking their lips over a potential payday. (Leave it to the greedy kiwis ... wait what?)

Seriously, it's a horrible flag which lost out in the first consideration and the creator had a bit of a tanty and got a "groundswell" of people on Facebook and Reddit to support hijacking the democratic process. And as it happens, the petition was rigged anyway. I'm actually embarrassed for my country.


Err, then don't vote for it. It the rest of the country agree with you, you'll be happy. If not, bad luck.

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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1395289 27-Sep-2015 17:56
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I would hardly say that ground swell of support on the likes of Facebook  is a swell of public opinion and a reliable  public poll .  We may as well say that talkback radio  comments  should be taken as public opinion polls as well.
You seem to be the main fan boy of Peak Flag here..


I am open to a change in our flag, and was prepared for a lengthy and open minded (and probably quite painful) debate about a new design. The quality of the four selected (amateurish) designs by the government appointed panel was atrocious in my opinion. Designers and good design are often seen as being superfluous in our DIY culture. I do have a design diploma from Wellington Polytechnic that was 3 years full time study in the mid eighties, but I have never worked as a designer.

I didnt pay much attention to Red Peak initially, but when the chosen four were announced, I was horrified by the lack of choice. I quite like an abstract design as its more open to various uses and interpretations. It flys well in combinatination with the silver fern IMO. It combines the red and black colours of the Tino Rangatirotanga flag with the blue, white  and red of the Union Jack. It symbolises a mountain peak (Hillary), first to see the light night going to day etc. 

The image that really "sold" me was an interpretation which showed a Maori meeting house in red superimposed over Mt Taranaki. Quite stunning.


The debates around Red Peak and other flag designs are important, because if we do decide to change the flag it will be with us for a long time. I imagine the current flag will be used by some no matter what happens in the referendum.


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  Reply # 1395370 27-Sep-2015 20:37
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bluedisk:
...

The debates around Red Peak and other flag designs are important, because if we do decide to change the flag it will be with us for a long time. I imagine the current flag will be used by some no matter what happens in the referendum.



If we decide to change the flag it might be with us for a long time, i.e. many years.

Many of the current arguments for changing the flag will continue to be relevant even if a new design is implemented. Unless the vast majority of voters support the "elect" design there is no reason to assume that the debate will simply disappear.

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  Reply # 1395457 28-Sep-2015 03:17
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bluedisk:


I would hardly say that ground swell of support on the likes of Facebook  is a swell of public opinion and a reliable  public poll .  We may as well say that talkback radio  comments  should be taken as public opinion polls as well.
You seem to be the main fan boy of Peak Flag here..


I am open to a change in our flag, and was prepared for a lengthy and open minded (and probably quite painful) debate about a new design. The quality of the four selected (amateurish) designs by the government appointed panel was atrocious in my opinion. Designers and good design are often seen as being superfluous in our DIY culture. I do have a design diploma from Wellington Polytechnic that was 3 years full time study in the mid eighties, but I have never worked as a designer.

I didnt pay much attention to Red Peak initially, but when the chosen four were announced, I was horrified by the lack of choice. I quite like an abstract design as its more open to various uses and interpretations. It flys well in combinatination with the silver fern IMO. It combines the red and black colours of the Tino Rangatirotanga flag with the blue, white  and red of the Union Jack. It symbolises a mountain peak (Hillary), first to see the light night going to day etc. 

The image that really "sold" me was an interpretation which showed a Maori meeting house in red superimposed over Mt Taranaki. Quite stunning.


The debates around Red Peak and other flag designs are important, because if we do decide to change the flag it will be with us for a long time. I imagine the current flag will be used by some no matter what happens in the referendum.



Yep - well put. Don't want to appear arrogant but I think Red Peak is more the Thinking Person's flag than the other four. If you're a fan boy, which was probably intended to be a bit insulting, I'm one too.

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  Reply # 1395484 28-Sep-2015 08:51
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Question: Why are we even changing our flag? what is wrong with the current one? anyone get the impression that this is a giant distraction from more pressing matters?




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  Reply # 1395548 28-Sep-2015 09:45
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bluedisk:

Factually incorrect: the designer Aaaron Dustin never had a "tanty" and got a "groundswell" of people on Facebook and Reddit to support hijacking the democratic process. 

Rowan Simpson who is not the designer started it all rolling with a blog called Dear John http://rowansimpson.com/2015/09/02/dear-john/

http://thespinoff.co.nz/13-09-2015/the-flag-i-started-the-red-peak-surge-because-i-love-the-silver-fern/

H
ow is a groundswell of opinion on social media sites undermining democracy? Its one of the few ways in this day and age where individuals get heard. I always thought that changing the flag would be a long and sometimes painful affair as we listen to others views who we may not agree with in the hope of finding something better that represents us all in the future.

Some people just don't like change, others don't like the flag designs presented. others the process. Thats all fine, but lets not be childish about the discussion.


How is it not undermining democracy? Red Peak came 38th out of 40 in the first pass public polling. Seriously, the people of NZ said it sucked that much. Then out of the blue, a bunch of people on Facebook (many of whom aren't even eligible to vote) started up a change.org petition (signed by people that don't even exist, and people who don't even use the internet) to ignore the opinions of those who actually did bother to participate in the process from day one.

To use Mauricio's word without actually using it because we can't on GZ, this whole process is bull#### and I cannot see how anyone can identify with any flag that has been selected simply to stroke John Key's empire building ego.

Personally? I don't like any of the designs presented, or the process, or the behaviours of the people backing the Red Peak flag (go look at its Facebook page sometime). And I dislike the way Red Peak got added even more.

And I dislike any flag where the designer is spruiking buying it from their website most of all.

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  Reply # 1395555 28-Sep-2015 10:02
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Can we add another referendum option please...?

f)  Politely ask Australia if they'll change their flag next time they change Prime Minister




Things are LookingUp....  A photo from my back yard :-)
http://www.astrophotogallery.org/u141-rodm.html 


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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1395589 28-Sep-2015 10:39
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LookingUp: Can we add another referendum option please...?

f)  Politely ask Australia if they'll change their flag next time they change Prime Minister


They can have our old one. It's almost like theirs, but better.

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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1395593 28-Sep-2015 10:44
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kawaii: Question: Why are we even changing our flag? what is wrong with the current one? anyone get the impression that this is a giant distraction from more pressing matters?


Same reason many other commonwealth countries have changed their flag as well.

While I like our current one, it would be nice to have something we can truly call our own.



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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1395627 28-Sep-2015 11:10
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How is it not undermining democracy? Red Peak came 38th out of 40 in the first pass public polling. Seriously, the people of NZ said it sucked that much. Then out of the blue, a bunch of people on Facebook (many of whom aren't even eligible to vote) started up a change.org petition (signed by people that don't even exist, and people who don't even use the internet) to ignore the opinions of those who actually did bother to participate in the process from day one.

To use Mauricio's word without actually using it because we can't on GZ, this whole process is bull#### and I cannot see how anyone can identify with any flag that has been selected simply to stroke John Key's empire building ego.

Personally? I don't like any of the designs presented, or the process, or the behaviours of the people backing the Red Peak flag (go look at its Facebook page sometime). And I dislike the way Red Peak got added even more.

And I dislike any flag where the designer is spruiking buying it from their website most of all.


A whole lot of opinions here, not necessarily fact.

Are you sure that the designer Aaron Dustin is "spruiking" merchandise from their website? I have just googled Red Peak, and the search didn't come up with such a site. Are you thinking of the Red Peak FB page, in which case are you sure that Aaron Dustin is behind this site? I'm not sure thats the case. 

It was rated 35 out of 40, not 38 as claimed.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/72339157/a-comprehensive-history-of-red-peak

 

"A survey conducted of 1000 New Zealanders by market research company UMR from August 25 to August 31 placed Red Peak as the public's 35th option overall.

 

It ranked as the fourth least favourite design in the same sample group, and the overall least preferred in the Maori demographic and for Green voters."

Ok so what if the short time allocated for the public to make up their mind wasn't long enough, or there wasn't enough open debate through a lack of interest? Whats wrong with people saying, hang on the choice is not there in the 4 finalists, lets have another look.

I agree that the process has turned bullshirt, but it is what it is. Thats why people are reacting on social media, and I welcome the discussion. You and I are not going to agree on the flag design, but lets agree to disagree and let the process work itself out from here on.

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  Reply # 1395676 28-Sep-2015 12:16
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A nice little sum up here on Red Peak ...

https://medium.com/@simon.momento/red-peak-the-little-flag-that-could-320d3094585b

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