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14588 posts

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  # 1399116 2-Oct-2015 21:01
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These are people we are talking about, people that had families and friends taken by a senseless atrocity.

These threads nearly always descend into rubbish, I am surprised the stupid guns don't kill line.




Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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  # 1399121 2-Oct-2015 21:09
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Rikkitic: NRA: Guns don't kill people. People kill people.

Me: That's why people should not be allowed anywhere near guns.



Even the army/police?

Think carefully before you answer this one. 
And put yourself somewhere else, in another dangerous country, where the police/army are actually the bad guys.

Everybody should have the right to defend themselves. This statement obviously does not sit well with most New Zealanders, which actually just proves that NZ is such a great place. We are lucky down here, we do not experience the same levels of crime/terrorism as other countries. Its therefore very hard for us to understand that this is how some people are forced to live. 

I'm all in support to remove every single gun from the US society if criminals could be disarmed first. You cant disarm the innocent and let the criminals keep their guns



 
 
 
 


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  # 1399123 2-Oct-2015 21:09
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DizzyD:
ubergeeknz:
mattwnz: This is terrible, but occasionally this sort of thing occurs here too. We have a far smaller population so it doesn't occur as often. People can too easily get guns. We have more protective laws for lasers and drones, than for firearms. I mean anyone can use a highpowered air gun without any license or training, which could potentially kill. The problem is that the gun lobby is large and  powerful.


air gun != high powered semi-automatic assault rifle

Also one or two armed holdups != 2-5 mass shooting incidents a week (yes, a week)


350 million people live in the states. Per capita its really not that bad. South Auckland and porirua probably quiet comparable per capita.



Not even close.  Over 10 / 100,000 per year die from gunshot in the US, 1.45 in NZ

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  # 1399124 2-Oct-2015 21:17
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ubergeeknz:
DizzyD:
ubergeeknz:
mattwnz: This is terrible, but occasionally this sort of thing occurs here too. We have a far smaller population so it doesn't occur as often. People can too easily get guns. We have more protective laws for lasers and drones, than for firearms. I mean anyone can use a highpowered air gun without any license or training, which could potentially kill. The problem is that the gun lobby is large and  powerful.


air gun != high powered semi-automatic assault rifle

Also one or two armed holdups != 2-5 mass shooting incidents a week (yes, a week)


350 million people live in the states. Per capita its really not that bad. South Auckland and porirua probably quiet comparable per capita.



Not even close.  Over 10 / 100,000 per year die from gunshot in the US, 1.45 in NZ


You have the stats for South Auckland and Porirua. Maybe try the Hutt too. Its pretty bad. 

My earlier wikipedia link showed all the gunshot murders per state in the United States. 
There are some extremely bad states, but some are really not that bad at all. You cant tar the entire country with the same brush. Its a big place. 

Plenty of states in America which are less than 1.45 per 100 000 people. Iowa for example where gun ownership is 42% (yes safer than NZ)
Gun ownership in some other states is lower, yet murders by gun is higher. Why? 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state

interesting that the states with the highest gun ownership also have the least gun murders. 



Lock him up!
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  # 1399131 2-Oct-2015 21:45
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mod: I started this thread as an expression of gratitude to be living in a country as great as New Zealand (in spite of its problems). Unfortunately, it seems to be deforming into another gun debate. Maybe it is time to lock it. If someone wants to start another thread celebrating the glories of gun ownership that is up to them but that is not the discussion I want to have. I don't mind talking about the pros and cons of life in America or NZ, but I would rather leave the guns out of it. There is a lot more than that to both countries.





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


JWR

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  # 1399188 3-Oct-2015 03:40

Rikkitic: mod: I started this thread as an expression of gratitude to be living in a country as great as New Zealand (in spite of its problems). Unfortunately, it seems to be deforming into another gun debate. Maybe it is time to lock it. If someone wants to start another thread celebrating the glories of gun ownership that is up to them but that is not the discussion I want to have. I don't mind talking about the pros and cons of life in America or NZ, but I would rather leave the guns out of it. There is a lot more than that to both countries.



I am glad we don't have legalized handguns, assault rifles etc. here.

We have a lot of legal sporting/hunting guns. Mostly there are no problems. Occasionally there are.

But, we would be crazy to emulate the US and free up our laws to allow pretty much any handgun or hand-held military weapon.

The statistics clearly show how much worse the US gun death rate is compared to New Zealand.

Handguns in the US are mainly used for killing your family and friends and not for self defense.

gsr

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  # 1399214 3-Oct-2015 09:18
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I think what most people are talking about is that kids are being killed at schools, in the wealthiest country in the world, quite quite often. These 'gunmen' in school shootings are mostly deranged teenagers. They are not kids from the rough neighbourhoods. So you cannot compare them to SA or Syria or anything. So you would have to arm all teenagers going to school all over the world; and if you have been a teenager, you'd know it's not a good idea.

The US, unfortunately has a history of brainwashing its citizens for the benefit of the defense industry. So it's hard to get people to change their point of view. I wouldn't be surprised if they held a sort of referendum and most people voted for some gun control measures to be implemented. It's hard to know how much of what the senate/congress or whatever votes is purely lobbying.

When someone says 'Guns don't kill people, people kill people", they unfortunately fall under a stereotype.

 
 
 
 


gzt

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  # 1399236 3-Oct-2015 10:27
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Rikkitic

With a topic title American Shootings and the post as well I'm not surprised it went there.

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