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8980 posts

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  # 1407401 15-Oct-2015 19:00
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surfisup1000:
MagicSquirrel:
Fred99:

What kind of car?
<for future reference as something to avoid>



Ford Ka. Not sure if that even classifies as 'a car' :)


Beats a smart car ha ha. 



In a way it does.  If you need to replace the starter motor on a Smart, at least with the original ones, the engine had to come out.
Absolutely brilliant.

As for the Ka, the originals were a simple 1960s engine shoe-horned into a... well it's a thing.
For Ford's lack of insight into design to allow reasonable access to the alternator - they should be flogged.  It would have even looked better if they'd kept it looking like an Anglia 105E.

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Master Geek


  # 1407538 15-Oct-2015 23:25
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CGA defines a consumer as someone who receives a "good" or someone who receives a "service".
The part was the "good", the labour was the "service"..... CGA applies.

Further, having just gone a few rounds with an appliance manufacturer for a faulty kitchen appliance that was 6 months out of warranty, note the following:

 

Remind them of their legal obligations. From reading the act, If the issue has failed to be remedied. You then have the right to reject the goods and require a replacement.

 

 

 

Details quoted from the department of consumer affairs:

 

 

 

http://www.consumeraffairs.govt.nz/for-consumers/goods/faulty-goods

 

 

 

Faulty goods bought from a retailer

 

The Consumer Guarantees Act (CGA) requires that goods you buy from a business must meet certain quality guarantees. If the fault with the goods breaches one of those guarantees, you may have rights against the retailer (and in some cases the manufacturer) to have the problem sorted out.

 

 

 

Additional detail:

 

 

 

http://www.consumeraffairs.govt.nz/for-consumers/goods/warranties

 

Consumer guarantees

 

These guarantees are your basic consumer rights under the Consumer Guarantees Act. One of these guarantees is that goods should be durable and last for a reasonable amount of time.

 

See Consumer Guarantees Act for information on the guarantees that goods and services must meet when sold by a retailer or service provider.

 

What can I do if something I bought didn’t last as long as I expected it to?

 

Take the goods back to the business if you can and show them what’s wrong. Explain that under the CGA they must repair, replace or refund the faulty goods if the problem is minor or give you a refund, replacement or compensation if the problem is serious.

 

 

 

If something you buy turns out to be faulty

 

Neither a manufacturer’s warranty, nor an extended warranty, replaces your rights under the Consumer Guarantees Act (CGA). And the business can’t tell you that it does.

 

If you buy something that turns out to be faulty, you can choose how you’d like to sort out the problem.

 

 

 

 

 

Full details are available by reading the Consumer Guarantees Act:

 

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1993/0091/latest/whole.html#DLM312818

 

Specifically: Part1 Sections 8,18,19, and 20

 
 
 
 


Webhead
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  # 1407543 16-Oct-2015 01:53
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MagicSquirrel: 
Ford Ka. Not sure if that even classifies as 'a car' :)


All Fords in my family (including the one I had the misfortune of owning) have been seriously troublesome. Have cured me from buying anything from Ford for life. I am not surprised it was a Ford from your description of trouble.

(BTW mine was a fairly new car, the other was factory new and both had serious recurring problems).




2844 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1407600 16-Oct-2015 09:09
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I assume it is the dealer that you originally purchased the car from that you are dealing with? If so how long ago did you purchase the car from them?

Banana?
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  # 1407621 16-Oct-2015 09:38
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Did the dealer tell you they were getting a refurbished (not new) part? What is the price difference with a new part?

Playing a bit of Devils Advocate, I'd suggest they will come back and say that because the part they put in wasn't new, and that you agreed with them putting it in, it was at your risk and that if the part failed, the part would be replaced but that it is not reasonable for them to foot the labour bill on a second hand part.

IMHO, being a dealer, they should have recommended a new part, and stood by that. If they didn't, then they should wear the cost of replacing the faulty reconditioned part they recommended (and either absorb the cost themselves or go after their supplier for reimbursement - either way, not your problem).



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Geek


  # 1407630 16-Oct-2015 09:51
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Paul1977: I assume it is the dealer that you originally purchased the car from that you are dealing with? If so how long ago did you purchase the car from them?


Nope, bought the car second hand but have been servicing it on same dealership.
We are talking about 10 year old car here. We are the second owners and are using same dealer as from where the original owner bought the car from, original owner also always serviced the car on same dealership.

History of the car should be irrelevant anyways. Car is no longer under warranty and I paid $550 for the alternator repair 6 months ago to which garage gave 12 month guarantee.

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Geek


  # 1407636 16-Oct-2015 09:58
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Give the CAB a call as they will be far more clued in than anyone here.

But I would have thought they could only pull that stuff if you didn't buy the alternator from them.

If you bought it from them and they installed it at the same time they need to replace it in the car.  If you brought the alternator in and they installed it then they did their job right under the CGA.

So it seems like that should be their cost to replace, but give the CAB a call as they know that stuff inside and out.

 
 
 
 


456 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1407640 16-Oct-2015 10:04
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Goosey: When my VW alternator packed up, it was replaced and a 12 month warranty for part only and I was informed this at the time. All labour cost was to be mine if it did packed up within 12 months, which was fair sounding to me.  Depending on the car, an alternator can be tricky to get out and in again (i.e. radiators, hoses, belts, other things crammed in the way of access). 

Was there any small print on the invoice pointing out that warranty was for parts only?



Even if their was, I'd imagine that the CSG would still apply as you can't just contract out in such a way.

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Uber Geek


  # 1407705 16-Oct-2015 10:58
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MagicSquirrel:
Paul1977: I assume it is the dealer that you originally purchased the car from that you are dealing with? If so how long ago did you purchase the car from them?


Nope, bought the car second hand but have been servicing it on same dealership.
We are talking about 10 year old car here. We are the second owners and are using same dealer as from where the original owner bought the car from, original owner also always serviced the car on same dealership.

History of the car should be irrelevant anyways. Car is no longer under warranty and I paid $550 for the alternator repair 6 months ago to which garage gave 12 month guarantee.


I was just coming from the angle that depending on how long ago the car was purchased, and if purchased from a dealer, you may have been covered under the CGA for the initial alternator replacement and fitting.

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Uber Geek


  # 1407709 16-Oct-2015 11:04
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AidanS:
Goosey: When my VW alternator packed up, it was replaced and a 12 month warranty for part only and I was informed this at the time. All labour cost was to be mine if it did packed up within 12 months, which was fair sounding to me.  Depending on the car, an alternator can be tricky to get out and in again (i.e. radiators, hoses, belts, other things crammed in the way of access). 

Was there any small print on the invoice pointing out that warranty was for parts only?



Even if their was, I'd imagine that the CSG would still apply as you can't just contract out in such a way.


I'm not so sure. If it was made clear that you were being sold two separate items (the part and the installation) then they could have separate warranties on each couldn't they? So the part failed and is covered by warranty, but there was nothing defective about the installation.

IANAL, but as long as this was spelled out at the time clearly then this sounds reasonable. If this was never explained (as obviously wasnt in the OPs case) it could be a different story.

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  # 1409383 19-Oct-2015 17:25
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If you had F&P out to fix your washing machine because the pump failed and then 6 months later the pump failed again within the 12 month warranty of the pump, would you expect to pay for the labour costs again?  How about a screen on a phone?

The real question is whether you want to tread on years of service you have had with the garage.  I tend to expect the worst from garages.  If you force them to install the replacement for free - take them to tribunal for example, you probably would have to find a new garage.  If you didn't they would probably make you pay a lot more over the coming years through WOF fails, service issues etc.




Procrastination eventually pays off.




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Geek


  # 1413282 24-Oct-2015 19:20
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FYI anyone pondering if to buy Ford Ka as a cheap vehicle to get from A to B.

Car has been on Ford dealer since Thursday the 15th, so over a week now.
Got a call on Tuesday telling they can't find a replacement alternator and don't want to order one from Ford UK as it would be about $1K.
They were supposed to give me an update on Thursday this week but didn't heard a thing from them.
I think I might pop there on Tuesday and have a chat about getting a courtesy car.







1768 posts

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  # 1413301 24-Oct-2015 19:55
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MagicSquirrel: FYI anyone pondering if to buy Ford Ka as a cheap vehicle to get from A to B.

Car has been on Ford dealer since Thursday the 15th, so over a week now.
Got a call on Tuesday telling they can't find a replacement alternator and don't want to order one from Ford UK as it would be about $1K.
They were supposed to give me an update on Thursday this week but didn't heard a thing from them.
I think I might pop there on Tuesday and have a chat about getting a courtesy car.







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  # 1413323 24-Oct-2015 22:40

So this explains why they installed a secondhand alternator instead of a brand new one. The issue though is, Imagine that the guarantee on the alternator itself was say 1 month. (because it is second hand instead of brand new) how long would CGA coverage last? The point im trying to make is that the 12 month parts only guarantee offered by alternator rebuilder. Might be a better guarantee than what the CGA would otherwise grant.

Did the garage examine the old alternator to see why it failed? You haven't been getting flat batteries, And then jump starting the car by any chance? As this can easily kill an alternator if you are not careful. As a completely flat but in good internal condition car battery can easily draw a massive current when you recharge it with a constant voltage charger. (which is what a car alternator is). And this combined with the cars normal electrical load can easily destroy an alternator.

Myself I once bought a secondhand (not rebuilt) alternator for my 89 Corolla. It came with a 7 day guarantee. It stopped working after 10 days. Both alternators broke due to rectifier diode failure. But it was my fault that they both failed as I had increased the load on the alternator. The solution - make my own external diode assembly. And had to also make my own voltage regulator as well as the factory one didn't like my homemade rectifier.





898 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1413359 25-Oct-2015 09:00
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Reading and re-reading your post.

I believe that you are absolutely covered by the CGA, irrespective of the alternator being reconditioned or brand new ( of it was ex wrecker it might be a different story if they advised you )

To recondition a car alternator is not hard, basically two bearings, slip ring, two brushes, rectifier pack and regulator will recondition most alternators back to as good as new, very rarely a bearing will collapse and there is damage to the rotor and or  stator windings, in which case the alternator is a write off.

I believe the garage / dealer should do this at no charge, from my experience they will do their best to to get you to pay for the labour.
You need to gently push back.

If that does not work you have three options.

1) take in the paperwork for the disputes tribunal, fill the paperwork out in front of the service manager, ask questions like what is the correct postal address, who is the director of the company etc. this will get their attention and will now know you mean business and do the job.

2) Pay the $250 and then file a claim in the disputes tribunal.

3) Take the car elsewhere, preferably to a ford dealer pay to have the alternator replaced and then take the original to the disputes tribunal.

Depending on the model of the Ford Ka, some of them were built by Kia, a Kia dealer may be able to help you.

Just out of interest, have you been advised of what has failed on the re-conditioned alternator?

Good luck, be firm but fair with them, dont go in like a bull at a gate, that will just get their hackles up and will go on the defensive straight away.

John




I know enough to be dangerous


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