Issue with Paywave

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Technofreak

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Topic # 182493 18-Oct-2015 14:27

Twice recently I've had a situation where my credit card has come close to the EFTPOS terminal while making a payment with my EFTPOS card. Both times much to my annoyance the paywave function on the EFTPOS terminal has taken the money from my credit card.

The first time I had inadvertently pulled both my EFTPOS and credit cards out of my wallet together and when I swiped the EFTPOS card the terminal took the payment from my credit card.

The second time I had my EFTPOS card in my right hand ready to swipe it while holding my wallet in my left hand. To use the terminal I had to pick it up with my left hand which I was able to do while still holding my wallet and you guessed it the terminal took the payment from my credit card which was still in my wallet.

There's a couple of things that bug me.

I never wanted the paywave function on the credit card, you don't get a choice.
Once the transaction has been completed the retailer will not reverse the transaction.

Does anyone know of a way to to stop paywave? Can you scratch off the chip and still use the magnetic swipe?

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Reply # 1408605 18-Oct-2015 14:36

http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?topicid=90492

There are three payment methods with a modern card

magnetic strip
chip-and-pin contact
paypass/paywave contactless

Magnetic stripe is the most insecure
destroying the chip will prevent chip-and-pin

Cards with chip-and-pin, when swiped with the mag-stripe will tell the terminal to re-present the card as a contact card, so if you destroyed your chip you have disabled it's use as an accepted payment card.

A double payment either on same card or different cards for the same transaction is a terminal fault and should be refunded by somebody.

You should be able to disable contactless payments and retain chip-and-pin by asking you card issuer.

Technofreak

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Reply # 1408614 18-Oct-2015 15:24

There was no double payment just payment from an account I didn't authorise.

I've already asked for paywave to be disabled, Visa won't do it.

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mattwnz

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Reply # 1408633 18-Oct-2015 15:27

Technofreak: There was no double payment just payment from an account I didn't authorise.

I've already asked for paywave to be disabled, Visa won't do it.

I can see your point. I wonder if slicing the chip part with a knife will do anything, or damage the card, although you do this at your own risk. I personally would do it. Personally I really only use my credit card for online purhcases, so the need for a chip doesn't bother me. But you do risk not being able to use the card if you do damage it. Maybe credit card companies should issue a shield sleeve. I guess it is in the credit card companies best interests not to fix this, as they make money from transactions. So if there are credit card transactions taking place automatically without people taking their cards out of their wallets, that maybe normally done via eftpos, they are in a win win situation.

GregV

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Reply # 1408639 18-Oct-2015 16:07

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ASB lets you enable/disable Paywave from within their mobile app (along with enabling/disabling ATM cash withdrawals, online transactions, and international in-store transactions)

Oblivian

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Reply # 1408661 18-Oct-2015 16:24

Same bank? Get eftpos loaded onto the card also and default as chip use if you don't ever want to use the CC via paywave.

Or a RFID sleeve which you then have to mess about and get the alternate card out of when you want to use it

http://www.idstronghold.com/Secure-Sleeves.asp

I only have 1 chipped card, and it works without removing it from my wallet (yay controlled spending + airpoints!) So as long as the wallet remains in the pocket, or on the terminal I don't have the issue that people seem to keep getting with handling 2 at once (apparently its a multitasking issue females do all the time, use the terminal with everything incl wallet in the same hand...)

On a side note.. everyone noticing how hard it is to read terminal displays now! so many people using the raw card and actually touching the screens while sliding it around. Little do they know you can often use it in-wallet or from 5-10cm away/on the side of terminal

Kyanar

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Reply # 1408669 18-Oct-2015 16:43

Oblivian: Same bank? Get eftpos loaded onto the card also and default as chip use if you don't ever want to use the CC via paywave.

Impossible. A requirement of the schemes is that if you have a scheme branded card, the default application on the chip must be the scheme application (Visa PayWave or MasterCard PayPass. Amex ExpressPay doesn't co-exist with EFTPOS apps anyway so that's irrelevant). Even then, as PayWave and PayPass are scheme applications, they are incapable of performing an EFTPOS transaction only a scheme debit/credit transaction.

Journeyman

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Reply # 1408673 18-Oct-2015 16:48

Locate the Paywave wire loop in the card, drill/punch hole through it.

Behodar

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Reply # 1408704 18-Oct-2015 17:12

My brother asked for a card without Paywave and Westpac provided one. That was a while ago so I'm not sure whether it's still possible, but try asking your bank.

Alternatively, start shopping at Countdown

(Paywave is enabled on the terminal but isn't accepted - possibly just with Westpac cards).

Oblivian

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Reply # 1408705 18-Oct-2015 17:17

Kyanar:
Oblivian: Same bank? Get eftpos loaded onto the card also and default as chip use if you don't ever want to use the CC via paywave.

Impossible. A requirement of the schemes is that if you have a scheme branded card, the default application on the chip must be the scheme application (Visa PayWave or MasterCard PayPass. Amex ExpressPay doesn't co-exist with EFTPOS apps anyway so that's irrelevant). Even then, as PayWave and PayPass are scheme applications, they are incapable of performing an EFTPOS transaction only a scheme debit/credit transaction.

If thats the case its a bit daft they give you the optional extra of adding accounts to the credit card then (they did on my anz plat) If you go to swipe to slelect savings its going to paywave it anyway. Unless part of that is disable paywave.

(session may not work for link) https://help.anz.co.nz/app/answers/detail/a_id/21/session/L3RpbWUvMTQ0NTE0MTcyNC9zaWQvLVo4VXRkem0%3D

Brumfondl

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Reply # 1408706 18-Oct-2015 17:18

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Guess I am the only grumpy old man thinking 'Just be more careful'...

kingjj

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Reply # 1408709 18-Oct-2015 17:30

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Brumfondl: Guess I am the only grumpy old man thinking 'Just be more careful'...

Make that two grumpy old buggers.

This topic has been discussed at length previously on GZ and it all seemed to boil down to: pay a bit of attention to what you're doing and she'll be right, otherwise get a sleeve/shielded wallet. I've got 3 PayWave cards and have, as of yet, never had an issue with the wrong card being used.

Paywave's here to stay and is only going to get more popular. I really don't understand why people are so negative about it.

freitasm

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Reply # 1408711 18-Oct-2015 17:35

mattwnz:
Technofreak: There was no double payment just payment from an account I didn't authorise.

I've already asked for paywave to be disabled, Visa won't do it.

I can see your point. I wonder if slicing the chip part with a knife will do anything, or damage the card, although you do this at your own risk. I personally would do it. Personally I really only use my credit card for online purhcases, so the need for a chip doesn't bother me. But you do risk not being able to use the card if you do damage it. Maybe credit card companies should issue a shield sleeve. I guess it is in the credit card companies best interests not to fix this, as they make money from transactions. So if there are credit card transactions taking place automatically without people taking their cards out of their wallets, that maybe normally done via eftpos, they are in a win win situation.

If you disable the chip the card functionality is lost. The chip is not there for Paywave (only).

Brumfondl: Guess I am the only grumpy old man thinking 'Just be more careful'...

This.

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MaxLV

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Reply # 1408726 18-Oct-2015 17:54

Kyanar:
Oblivian: Same bank? Get eftpos loaded onto the card also and default as chip use if you don't ever want to use the CC via paywave.

Impossible. A requirement of the schemes is that if you have a scheme branded card, the default application on the chip must be the scheme application (Visa PayWave or MasterCard PayPass. Amex ExpressPay doesn't co-exist with EFTPOS apps anyway so that's irrelevant). Even then, as PayWave and PayPass are scheme applications, they are incapable of performing an EFTPOS transaction only a scheme debit/credit transaction.

With standard, Bank issued credit cards you simply ask your bank to load debit access on the card, and have your bank account the funds come from loaded as the 'Fast Balance' account. That way, when using an ATM or Eftpos the default account is the debit access one. To use your credit card, you have to push the credit (card) button on the Eftpos terminal to use your credit card account.

A credit card without debit access loaded will always use the credit card account for Paywave purchases. I dont know about 'scheme' cards...

MaxLV

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Reply # 1408729 18-Oct-2015 18:01

Oblivian:
Kyanar:
Oblivian: Same bank? Get eftpos loaded onto the card also and default as chip use if you don't ever want to use the CC via paywave.

Impossible. A requirement of the schemes is that if you have a scheme branded card, the default application on the chip must be the scheme application (Visa PayWave or MasterCard PayPass. Amex ExpressPay doesn't co-exist with EFTPOS apps anyway so that's irrelevant). Even then, as PayWave and PayPass are scheme applications, they are incapable of performing an EFTPOS transaction only a scheme debit/credit transaction.

If thats the case its a bit daft they give you the optional extra of adding accounts to the credit card then (they did on my anz plat) If you go to swipe to slelect savings its going to paywave it anyway. Unless part of that is disable paywave.

(session may not work for link) https://help.anz.co.nz/app/answers/detail/a_id/21/session/L3RpbWUvMTQ0NTE0MTcyNC9zaWQvLVo4VXRkem0%3D

Paywave transaction have to be initiated by the retailer when they're punching their numbers in to the Eftpos terminal. It's not the default payment option.

raytaylor

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Reply # 1408746 18-Oct-2015 18:46

Journeyman: Locate the Paywave wire loop in the card, drill/punch hole through it.

Pretty sure if you still use the magnetic stripe it will just ask you to insert the card so you would have to be careful not to damage the chip.

I have also heard of a few retailers say they have turned down the sensitivity on their eftpos handsets to prevent this from happening.

I had a bad expierence at i think it was harvey norman - i couldnt get the card into the machine without the paywave being triggered and declining the transaction which was over the paywave limit.
Ended up going to the ATM and going back.

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