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  # 1415465 28-Oct-2015 12:56
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DizzyD:
Alcohol is already very accessible. 
Its even available in supermarkets. Which to me should be a NO NO. 


Only wine and beer. IMO it should be more accessible at supermarkets so I dont have to go to grotty liquor shops.




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  # 1415472 28-Oct-2015 13:01
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networkn:
MikeB4: I cannot see the point, there should be some places one can take children without the risk of boozed up patrons. There is no need to sell this at every venue and every event, surely people can go for an hour without drinking booze.


This exactly! It's amazing to me the number of people who don't seem able to enjoy food without alcohol, or go without alcohol for a day or two. 


You can't mix those who might enjoy a cold one at Wendys with those who cant go a day without booze. If you do, then it needs not to be sold at any other eating place as well, as the same generalisation rule applies. And are pubs licenced get drunk venues? No.

Other eating places, restaurants, seem to be able to serve a cold one without me reading about brawls every morning on Stuff.

 
 
 
 




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  # 1415484 28-Oct-2015 13:18
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I do think we need to review the law around cannabis though: it is mad that you can buy and drink 10 bottles of vodka but you can't have a joint.


Oh God why did you need to bring THAT up. Start your own topic so I can ignore it :) 




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  # 1415486 28-Oct-2015 13:21
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tdgeek:
networkn:
MikeB4: I cannot see the point, there should be some places one can take children without the risk of boozed up patrons. There is no need to sell this at every venue and every event, surely people can go for an hour without drinking booze.


This exactly! It's amazing to me the number of people who don't seem able to enjoy food without alcohol, or go without alcohol for a day or two. 


You can't mix those who might enjoy a cold one at Wendys with those who cant go a day without booze. If you do, then it needs not to be sold at any other eating place as well, as the same generalisation rule applies. And are pubs licenced get drunk venues? No.

Other eating places, restaurants, seem to be able to serve a cold one without me reading about brawls every morning on Stuff.


Well to be fair most other places have waitresses, people checking on things etc. Wendys don't really have people running around bringing food to tables. It's not scientific but it certainly feels to me like they should be related. 

I'd also wager that host responsibility would be followed a lot more closely in bars/restaurants as opposed to a take out place. 

I couldn't really imagine a Wendy's employee saying to a customer.. Sir you seem to have had too much to drink, perhaps you could get a cab home, or take away his keys (Which I've seen a couple of times at places that fit the more traditional restaurant/sports bar type establishments.

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  # 1415502 28-Oct-2015 14:08
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networkn:
Well to be fair most other places have waitresses, people checking on things etc. Wendys don't really have people running around bringing food to tables. It's not scientific but it certainly feels to me like they should be related.


Perhaps they plan to add table service like maccas?

Most pubs dont have someone going around checking on things, they just have someone taking the empties back to get "washed".




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  # 1415528 28-Oct-2015 14:35
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networkn:
graemeh: I don't see how it could be a problem.

Wendy's never seemed like a place I would like to hang out, it would be nice to have a beer with a burger but I doubt most people would buy a second one.

Also, I doubt the managers will sell to anyone who is even slightly intoxicated as they know they will be under lots of scrutiny.


Heh ever seen a Wendy's when it's busy? Little to no chance of them even having time to come from behind the counter let alone check people for intoxication. 


Yes I have and it can get very busy.

The simple answer is if you are buying alcohol you come to the counter.  If you want four beers then you and your three mates need to front up.

You're unlikely to buy a second beer because of the queue to buy the next one.

wasabi2k: Currently fast food outlets are still frequented by hammered people on a Friday/Sat/Sun on the way into/home from town. Drunk people aren't usually refused service.


That will be very interesting if they do get a license.

Hammered people are not allowed in to licensed premises and the manager / company can be severely punished even if the drunks have not obtained or consumed any alcohol in those premises.

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  # 1415603 28-Oct-2015 16:48
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DizzyD:

Whats your definition of a restaurant?



Restaurant = somewhere cutlery is routinely used?

Actually, a licensed burger bar should have fewer drunk people in it, because they aren't allowed to be there.

It's illegal for the licensee to allow intoxicated people on the premises
(Sale and Supply of Liquor Act 2012, s252). 

At a regular unlicensed fast food joint that only serves soft drinks etc, there is no legal impediment to having lots of drunks on the premises.











Mike

 
 
 
 


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  # 1415688 28-Oct-2015 19:08
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I'm a duty manager and a licencee so am well versed in all thing liquor licencing.

There's quite a significant process to go through to become liquor licenced and there's a few parties that are involved: the district licencing authority, the police and the local health board.  If any one of these parties isn't comfortable with the application, it's stopped right there in its tracks.  Speaking from experience, they certainly put you through the wringer. 

Under the changes to the Sale of Liquor Act 2012, there's more information that's now required.  This time (I've just been through the renewal process) not only did we have to produce our host responsibility policy, but also an alcohol management plan, ie, list all the risks and how we will mitigate them, in order to stay compliant with the act.

I personally don't have an issue with Wendys selling alcohol as they will be subject to the exact same laws that every other licenced premises is.  If they are found in breach, they could be subject to forced closures for some time as punishment, so you'll pretty much guarantee they'll need to be careful.  Add to this some very hefty fines for the person serving, the manager AND the licencee, one little mistake (such as serving someone underage) gets pretty expensive.  If the get an infrigement, this also affects what they pay each year (the yearly licencee fee goes up).

If you do feel that Wendys shouldn't get a liquor licence, you can object as a member of the public.  Wendys will need to advertise the fact they are applying for a licence in the local paper (twice since this is a new licence).  Keep an eye out for this and you'll be able to object through the proper channels (more info here).



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  # 1415795 28-Oct-2015 21:35
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networkn:
MikeB4: I cannot see the point, there should be some places one can take children without the risk of boozed up patrons. There is no need to sell this at every venue and every event, surely people can go for an hour without drinking booze.


This exactly! It's amazing to me the number of people who don't seem able to enjoy food without alcohol, or go without alcohol for a day or two. 


I'm probably going to regret chipping into this thread, but that statement is fairly asinine.

It has nothing to do with whether people can't go without alcohol, and everything to do with the freedom of adults to enjoy a cold one with their burger on a sunny day if they choose to do so. It's like ketchup, I don't tend to eat it on fries, but I don't have a problem with people who do. I don't wave my finger, make tutting noises, and and express faux surprise at the number of people who don't seem to be able to go without ketchup for a day or two. 

Most people who enjoy a beer with their meal when out aren't hopeless alcoholics who can't go a day without drinking, they just happened to fancy a beer at the time.

I was in another establishment a few days ago. They were serving burgers. They were also serving beer... and wine, spirits or cider if a patron wanted it. There were also families eating there, with quite a few young children. The atmosphere was good, everybody was minding their own business, and the Sky wasn't falling because beer was being served in a place where burgers were sold, or where children were served.

And in point of fact I had a steak not a burger, and an OJ because that's what I felt like (I don't actually drink much or often). But if I wanted a beer I would have ordered one, and without the slightest guilt that I was doing something wrong, or that I was wrecking the family dining experience or the lives of the children next to me. If it was warmer I might have ordered one.

I don't actually have a problem with the Wendy's application. They are a restaurant by any reasonable definition - they have a menu, a kitchen, food, tables and staff. They also have to comply with the same fairly strict licensing conditions as any other establishment where alcohol is served, in terms of not serving minors or intoxicated people etc. I doubt anyone would go to Wendys with the intention of getting boozed up, and if they did I suspect they would be swiftly ejected.

I'm struggling to understand what your problem with the application is, of how exactly you thing it will cause serious harm. We aren't talking about crack cocaine here, we are taking about adults having the freedom to have a beer with their meal. Just like they do in many other establishments, where children may be present.

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  # 1415834 28-Oct-2015 23:09
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JimmyH:
networkn:
MikeB4: I cannot see the point, there should be some places one can take children without the risk of boozed up patrons. There is no need to sell this at every venue and every event, surely people can go for an hour without drinking booze.


This exactly! It's amazing to me the number of people who don't seem able to enjoy food without alcohol, or go without alcohol for a day or two. 


I'm probably going to regret chipping into this thread, but that statement is fairly asinine.

It has nothing to do with whether people can't go without alcohol, and everything to do with the freedom of adults to enjoy a cold one with their burger on a sunny day if they choose to do so. It's like ketchup, I don't tend to eat it on fries, but I don't have a problem with people who do. I don't wave my finger, make tutting noises, and and express faux surprise at the number of people who don't seem to be able to go without ketchup for a day or two. 

Most people who enjoy a beer with their meal when out aren't hopeless alcoholics who can't go a day without drinking, they just happened to fancy a beer at the time.

I was in another establishment a few days ago. They were serving burgers. They were also serving beer... and wine, spirits or cider if a patron wanted it. There were also families eating there, with quite a few young children. The atmosphere was good, everybody was minding their own business, and the Sky wasn't falling because beer was being served in a place where burgers were sold, or where children were served.

And in point of fact I had a steak not a burger, and an OJ because that's what I felt like (I don't actually drink much or often). But if I wanted a beer I would have ordered one, and without the slightest guilt that I was doing something wrong, or that I was wrecking the family dining experience or the lives of the children next to me. If it was warmer I might have ordered one.

I don't actually have a problem with the Wendy's application. They are a restaurant by any reasonable definition - they have a menu, a kitchen, food, tables and staff. They also have to comply with the same fairly strict licensing conditions as any other establishment where alcohol is served, in terms of not serving minors or intoxicated people etc. I doubt anyone would go to Wendys with the intention of getting boozed up, and if they did I suspect they would be swiftly ejected.

I'm struggling to understand what your problem with the application is, of how exactly you thing it will cause serious harm. We aren't talking about crack cocaine here, we are taking about adults having the freedom to have a beer with their meal. Just like they do in many other establishments, where children may be present.


Exactly right, 100%.

There are many places where alcohol and families mix. Retail establishments, home, BBQ, and so on.

If any dudes are going to buy booze to get plastered, will they go to a supermarket and buy the cheap Haagens for $14 for a box, the more standard Heiny or Steiny at circa $22 odd, or will they go to Wendys at $9 I guess a bottle, thats $108 a box? No, the same families that might go to a family restaurant, might go to Wendys. Wendy's wont create yobbo's, they are already yobbo's. 

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  # 1415836 28-Oct-2015 23:16
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I recall Pizza Hut may have used to sell wine and beer etc, when it was more of a family restaurant. Although that is when smoking was also allowed, and that would be unthinkable today that you could ever smoke in a restaurant.  I don't have a problem with it, as long as it is more like a restaurant, where people are all sitting, and it is served to them by waiters. If it is more like fast food, where people are carrying around trays of food drinks piled up, and where it is more likely kids will come in contact with it, then I do have a problem with it. Also I think it should be priced so that people don't binge on it, like they can do with cheap food at fast food places.  I think it all has to do with the context of how it is served, and it should be done in a 'sit down' order arrangement like a regular restaurant, or at the very least it is served by a waiter. NZ does have huge problems with alcohol, which you simply don't see in many other places around the world.

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  # 1415912 29-Oct-2015 08:33
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MikeB4: I cannot see the point, there should be some places one can take children without the risk of boozed up patrons. There is no need to sell this at every venue and every event, surely people can go for an hour without drinking booze.


There are places you can take children without the risk of boozed up patrons.

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  # 1415921 29-Oct-2015 08:51
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It's fairly safe to assume nobody objected when other burger chains such as Velvet Burger started selling booze.




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  # 1415926 29-Oct-2015 09:05
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JimmyH:
networkn:
MikeB4: I cannot see the point, there should be some places one can take children without the risk of boozed up patrons. There is no need to sell this at every venue and every event, surely people can go for an hour without drinking booze.


This exactly! It's amazing to me the number of people who don't seem able to enjoy food without alcohol, or go without alcohol for a day or two. 


I'm probably going to regret chipping into this thread, but that statement is fairly asinine.

It has nothing to do with whether people can't go without alcohol, and everything to do with the freedom of adults to enjoy a cold one with their burger on a sunny day if they choose to do so. It's like ketchup, I don't tend to eat it on fries, but I don't have a problem with people who do. I don't wave my finger, make tutting noises, and and express faux surprise at the number of people who don't seem to be able to go without ketchup for a day or two. 

Most people who enjoy a beer with their meal when out aren't hopeless alcoholics who can't go a day without drinking, they just happened to fancy a beer at the time.

I was in another establishment a few days ago. They were serving burgers. They were also serving beer... and wine, spirits or cider if a patron wanted it. There were also families eating there, with quite a few young children. The atmosphere was good, everybody was minding their own business, and the Sky wasn't falling because beer was being served in a place where burgers were sold, or where children were served.

And in point of fact I had a steak not a burger, and an OJ because that's what I felt like (I don't actually drink much or often). But if I wanted a beer I would have ordered one, and without the slightest guilt that I was doing something wrong, or that I was wrecking the family dining experience or the lives of the children next to me. If it was warmer I might have ordered one.

I don't actually have a problem with the Wendy's application. They are a restaurant by any reasonable definition - they have a menu, a kitchen, food, tables and staff. They also have to comply with the same fairly strict licensing conditions as any other establishment where alcohol is served, in terms of not serving minors or intoxicated people etc. I doubt anyone would go to Wendys with the intention of getting boozed up, and if they did I suspect they would be swiftly ejected.

I'm struggling to understand what your problem with the application is, of how exactly you thing it will cause serious harm. We aren't talking about crack cocaine here, we are taking about adults having the freedom to have a beer with their meal. Just like they do in many other establishments, where children may be present.


I don't see the need to start the above post with an insult. But anyway, my point is the number of family orientated eateries is diminishing fast, There are already countless places with licences that those who want a drink can go. Is it really that unreasonable for those who don't wish it and expose their kids to it to have just a few places to go ?




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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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  # 1415934 29-Oct-2015 09:19
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MikeAqua: 

Actually, a licensed burger bar should have fewer drunk people in it, because they aren't allowed to be there.

At a regular unlicensed fast food joint that only serves soft drinks etc, there is no legal impediment to having lots of drunks on the premises.


You assuming everybody that comes for a burger/drink is a "drunk" while ignoring that most people will be well behaved, and will simply be opting for a beer instead of a coke. 

nate: 

If you do feel that Wendys shouldn't get a liquor licence, you can object as a member of the public.  Wendys will need to advertise the fact they are applying for a licence in the local paper (twice since this is a new licence).  Keep an eye out for this and you'll be able to object through the proper channels (more info here).




Is there a link where we can vote to support the liquor licence for Wendy's?

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