Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


Filter this topic showing only the reply marked as answer View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7

jmh

458 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

  # 1415936 29-Oct-2015 09:20
One person supports this post
Send private message

It just more of the continual creep of alcohol into daily life.

When I was growing up, we never had booze at Christmas, now people have it at children's parties.  Children are surrounded by parents and other responsible adults who can't attend any function, even a quick visit to a takeaways, without access to drink.

This isn't about freedom of choice - there are plenty of places you can get your booze if you really can't manage a meal without it.

The message we give kids today is that you can't enjoy life without a drink in your hand. 

523 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user


  # 1415947 29-Oct-2015 09:31
Send private message

MikeB4: 
There are already countless places with licences that those who want a drink can go. Is it really that unreasonable for those who don't wish it and expose their kids to it to have just a few places to go ?


I don't get the "don't want to expose their kids to it" argument. 

Expose them to what? Beer/wine? or drunks?

There is a difference. 

Like most licensed restaurants where we take the family, their are never drunks. Alcohol yes. I would much rather take my kids to a restaurant where they serve wine/beer than taking them into a late night pub. Both serve alcohol, and yet there is a huge difference to the way alcohol is consumed. We dine out with the family quiet a bit, at least once a month, at mostly licensed restaurants. I don't recall a single time where drunk people have ruined our evening. Wendy's will be no different. 



 
 
 
 


523 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user


  # 1415961 29-Oct-2015 09:39
Send private message

jmh: 
When I was growing up, we never had booze at Christmas, now people have it at children's parties.  Children are surrounded by parents and other responsible adults who can't attend any function, even a quick visit to a takeaways, without access to drink.

This isn't about freedom of choice - there are plenty of places you can get your booze if you really can't manage a meal without it.

The message we give kids today is that you can't enjoy life without a drink in your hand. 


You describing alcoholics who need help. Most people, DON'T live that lifestyle. 

An alcoholic, like a smoker, will get his/her fix regardless on how available it is. Why would he go into Wendy's when instead he can go into the local supermarket and get his fix at half the price. 

6359 posts

Uber Geek

Moderator
Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 1415977 29-Oct-2015 09:52
Send private message

DizzyD: Is there a link where we can vote to support the liquor licence for Wendy's?


No doesn't work that way sorry :)

1702 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

  # 1416021 29-Oct-2015 10:46
Send private message

Alcohol usage in NZ is harmful, and becoming increasingly so.  The social cost using a WHO model put that cost at 4.9 billion for 05/06.  1/3 of police arrests involve alcohol. 1/2 of serious violent crimes are related to alcohol.   

There is internationally proven correlation between alcohol access and all of these things increasing.

The vast majority of NZers can drink safely, but the impact as stated above means that a significant number do not.  When one assess how to combat such problems they look at models that are proven to be successful.  The most cost effective measure is to reduce access (time & geographical, & cost).

That doesnt sit well with a lot of people because like we accepted above the vast majority of people can drink safely.  However the law makers must decide how can we reduce those issues, and still keep power.  

So should Wendys get a licence?

No, this does the opposite of what needs to be done.  But I would say that - I work with the effects of over consumption on a daily basis for a living.



5390 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1416029 29-Oct-2015 10:59
Send private message

DizzyD:
MikeAqua: 

Actually, a licensed burger bar should have fewer drunk people in it, because they aren't allowed to be there.

At a regular unlicensed fast food joint that only serves soft drinks etc, there is no legal impediment to having lots of drunks on the premises.


You assuming everybody that comes for a burger/drink is a "drunk" while ignoring that most people will be well behaved, and will simply be opting for a beer instead of a coke. 



You have missed my point.  I'm not arguing for or against beer at Wendy's (I enjoy a beer myself), I'm just pointing out a different perspective. 

1) It is illegal for drunk people to be in a licensed premises.
2) It is perfectly legal for drunk people to be in a non-licensed burger bar now.

Therefore if the law is adhered to you are less likely to encounter a drunk person in a burger bar that serves alcohol than in one that doesn't serve alcohol.

My only assumption was that some drunk people go into Wendy's burger bars from time to time.  I think that is a pretty safe assumption.  I see drunk people at fast food joints often and the staff generally allow them to be there unless they behave particularly appallingly.






Mike

6359 posts

Uber Geek

Moderator
Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 1416031 29-Oct-2015 11:03
One person supports this post
Send private message

MikeAqua:  I see drunk people at fast food joints often and the staff generally allow them to be there unless they behave particularly appallingly.


Fast food, while drunk, tastes like eating a gourmet meal from a 5 star restaurant.  So I've heard.

 
 
 
 


523 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user


  # 1416037 29-Oct-2015 11:18
Send private message

MikeAqua: 

You have missed my point.  I'm not arguing for or against beer at Wendy's (I enjoy a beer myself), I'm just pointing out a different perspective. 

1) It is illegal for drunk people to be in a licensed premises.
2) It is perfectly legal for drunk people to be in a non-licensed burger bar now.

Therefore if the law is adhered to you are less likely to encounter a drunk person in a burger bar that serves alcohol than in one that doesn't serve alcohol.

My only assumption was that some drunk people go into Wendy's burger bars from time to time.  I think that is a pretty safe assumption.  I see drunk people at fast food joints often and the staff generally allow them to be there unless they behave particularly appallingly.



You missing the point. 

We already have licensed restaurants. Why is this any different? You arguing against a law that is already in place. Its perfectly legal for current restaurants to be licensed and serve alcohol.
Restaurants are NOT pubs. Wendy's is just another restaurant. 


Lock him up!
10953 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 1416043 29-Oct-2015 11:27
Send private message

itxtme: Alcohol usage in NZ is harmful, and becoming increasingly so.  The social cost using a WHO model put that cost at 4.9 billion for 05/06.  1/3 of police arrests involve alcohol. 1/2 of serious violent crimes are related to alcohol.   

There is internationally proven correlation between alcohol access and all of these things increasing.

The vast majority of NZers can drink safely, but the impact as stated above means that a significant number do not.  When one assess how to combat such problems they look at models that are proven to be successful.  The most cost effective measure is to reduce access (time & geographical, & cost).

That doesnt sit well with a lot of people because like we accepted above the vast majority of people can drink safely.  However the law makers must decide how can we reduce those issues, and still keep power.  

So should Wendys get a licence?

No, this does the opposite of what needs to be done.  But I would say that - I work with the effects of over consumption on a daily basis for a living.




I would not argue with any of this, but I do wonder what happens when aggressive, instant gratification alcohol-dependent types cannot get a drink when they want one. Do they just decide to have a cup of tea instead? 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


18485 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  # 1416047 29-Oct-2015 11:31
2 people support this post
Send private message

itxtme: Alcohol usage in NZ is harmful, and becoming increasingly so.  The social cost using a WHO model put that cost at 4.9 billion for 05/06.  1/3 of police arrests involve alcohol. 1/2 of serious violent crimes are related to alcohol.   

There is internationally proven correlation between alcohol access and all of these things increasing.

The vast majority of NZers can drink safely, but the impact as stated above means that a significant number do not.  When one assess how to combat such problems they look at models that are proven to be successful.  The most cost effective measure is to reduce access (time & geographical, & cost).

That doesnt sit well with a lot of people because like we accepted above the vast majority of people can drink safely.  However the law makers must decide how can we reduce those issues, and still keep power.  

So should Wendys get a licence?

No, this does the opposite of what needs to be done.  But I would say that - I work with the effects of over consumption on a daily basis for a living.





Do these heavy drinkers drink at pubs where people go to drink?  yes
Do they drink at home where they can do what they like? yes
Do these heavy drinkers drink at large and small restaurants? No
Will they drink at Wendys or the myriad of existing small eating places? No  They dont now, why would they begin?

The problem with this thread is that having a cold beer, or a wine with a meal is NOT the same as the binge drinkers issue this country has. Its like for some here drinking is a sin, dont let the kids see it. If its a beer, a wine, Fanta, OJ, water, it's a drink at a family meal.

I suggest discussing a social drink with a meal in this thread and start another about binge drinking, as there is no overlap in this context of Wendys. Nor Burgers and Beers Ltd, etc etc. Some here do not like drinking of alcoholic beverages, thats the bottom line, its not really about Wendys

18485 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  # 1416049 29-Oct-2015 11:35
One person supports this post
Send private message

Rikkitic:
itxtme: Alcohol usage in NZ is harmful, and becoming increasingly so.  The social cost using a WHO model put that cost at 4.9 billion for 05/06.  1/3 of police arrests involve alcohol. 1/2 of serious violent crimes are related to alcohol.   

There is internationally proven correlation between alcohol access and all of these things increasing.

The vast majority of NZers can drink safely, but the impact as stated above means that a significant number do not.  When one assess how to combat such problems they look at models that are proven to be successful.  The most cost effective measure is to reduce access (time & geographical, & cost).

That doesnt sit well with a lot of people because like we accepted above the vast majority of people can drink safely.  However the law makers must decide how can we reduce those issues, and still keep power.  

So should Wendys get a licence?

No, this does the opposite of what needs to be done.  But I would say that - I work with the effects of over consumption on a daily basis for a living.




I would not argue with any of this, but I do wonder what happens when aggressive, instant gratification alcohol-dependent types cannot get a drink when they want one. Do they just decide to have a cup of tea instead? 



They go to liquor stores. They are open late in the weekends, if they are that dependent they will shoot down there to get their stocks when they get low.  They can go to supermarkets till around 10pm. Would they go to Wendys and spend the same on 2.5 bottles when they can get a 12 box elsewhere?  Storm in a teacup.

8911 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1416057 29-Oct-2015 11:58
One person supports this post
Send private message

DizzyD:
jmh: 
When I was growing up, we never had booze at Christmas, now people have it at children's parties.  Children are surrounded by parents and other responsible adults who can't attend any function, even a quick visit to a takeaways, without access to drink.

This isn't about freedom of choice - there are plenty of places you can get your booze if you really can't manage a meal without it.

The message we give kids today is that you can't enjoy life without a drink in your hand. 


You describing alcoholics who need help. Most people, DON'T live that lifestyle. 

An alcoholic, like a smoker, will get his/her fix regardless on how available it is. Why would he go into Wendy's when instead he can go into the local supermarket and get his fix at half the price. 


There was a discussion on Nat Radio about this yesterday afternoon, with a comment made that liberalisation of alcohol laws in NZ had the intent of "normalising" moderate alcohol consumption to be like France, but we ended up more like Russia.  That's probably a vast exaggeration.

My 22YO's group of friends, over the years there seems to be almost random use/abuse of alcohol. It's not easy IMO to correlate anything, education, home environment, to how they treat alcohol.
The worst / most immediately dangerous abuse I've seen seemed to be with young (16-18yo) girls.  Aside from the personal safety risk of getting near comatose, some have been in grave danger from alcohol poisoning.  I've had the late night call - "what should I do - xxxxx's passed out unconscious after drinking tumblers of vodka and we can't wake her up".  1) call ambulance, stay with her, make sure she can breathe doesn't choke to death etc 2) call parents 3) get in car to mount backup rescue mission.  Not fun at 2:00am.

One thing which I've really noticed is treating it as a normal "rite of passage".  This comes out at 21st birthday party speeches, some pretty alarming (IMO) stories shared amongst all.  I don't know if it's rose tinted spectacles, but I'm pretty damned sure that such stories would have never come out in speeches in front of great aunties when I was 21, let alone to cheers and applause. This isn't kids from the wrong side of the tracks, but wealthy professional parents, doctors, lawyers whatever.  



1702 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

  # 1416058 29-Oct-2015 11:59
Send private message

tdgeek:
Rikkitic:
itxtme: Alcohol usage in NZ is harmful, and becoming increasingly so.  The social cost using a WHO model put that cost at 4.9 billion for 05/06.  1/3 of police arrests involve alcohol. 1/2 of serious violent crimes are related to alcohol.   

There is internationally proven correlation between alcohol access and all of these things increasing.

The vast majority of NZers can drink safely, but the impact as stated above means that a significant number do not.  When one assess how to combat such problems they look at models that are proven to be successful.  The most cost effective measure is to reduce access (time & geographical, & cost).

That doesnt sit well with a lot of people because like we accepted above the vast majority of people can drink safely.  However the law makers must decide how can we reduce those issues, and still keep power.  

So should Wendys get a licence?

No, this does the opposite of what needs to be done.  But I would say that - I work with the effects of over consumption on a daily basis for a living.




I would not argue with any of this, but I do wonder what happens when aggressive, instant gratification alcohol-dependent types cannot get a drink when they want one. Do they just decide to have a cup of tea instead? 



They go to liquor stores. They are open late in the weekends, if they are that dependent they will shoot down there to get their stocks when they get low.  They can go to supermarkets till around 10pm. Would they go to Wendys and spend the same on 2.5 bottles when they can get a 12 box elsewhere?  Storm in a teacup.


You are missing the point, we should be reducing the three not increasing them.  Reduce (or increase as the cost one goes) any or preferably all 3 and the harm caused by alcohol does go down.

Like I said several times, not popular with the vast majority of NZers that are responsible drinkers. But undeniably, and repeatedly proven the most effective way to reduce alcohol consumption in a cost effective manor.  4 billion dollars is a lot of money..


I would not argue with any of this, but I do wonder what happens when aggressive, instant gratification alcohol-dependent types cannot get a drink when they want one. Do they just decide to have a cup of tea instead? 


It depends on the extreme of their behaviour, the worst cases abuse alternative alcohol products (mouthwashes, hand sanitisers, meths).  This does not take away from the fact that as access decreases the abuse of it decreases.  We would see decreases in all areas of harm by increasing cost by 20% and reducing access to buy alcohol to say 9pm.  Again, not popular, Its a balancing act.

5390 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1416063 29-Oct-2015 12:12
Send private message

Alcohol with food has always been part of daily life in Western society.  Food and alcohol have long been understood add to the enjoyment of each other.

Enjoyment of alcohol at celebrations and dependence on alcohol are very different things.  It's common in western society to mark special occasions (even come religious occasions) with a drink.

It's up to parents to impart what they see as appropriate values to their kids.

Parents can't expect society to be configured to conform to their individual value set.

If a parent takes their kids somewhere people are drinking, it's an opportunity to explain why they do/don't think that's appropriate behaviour in that context.

Personally, I don't see controlled drinking in food outlets as poor behaviour for our kids (17,11, 9) to see.  IMO it's better than leaving an appropriate behaviour vacuum that will be filled by their peers.


jmh: It just more of the continual creep of alcohol into daily life.

When I was growing up, we never had booze at Christmas, now people have it at children's parties.  Children are surrounded by parents and other responsible adults who can't attend any function, even a quick visit to a takeaways, without access to drink.

This isn't about freedom of choice - there are plenty of places you can get your booze if you really can't manage a meal without it.

The message we give kids today is that you can't enjoy life without a drink in your hand. 




Mike

18485 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  # 1416065 29-Oct-2015 12:17
Send private message

Fred99:
DizzyD:
jmh: 
When I was growing up, we never had booze at Christmas, now people have it at children's parties.  Children are surrounded by parents and other responsible adults who can't attend any function, even a quick visit to a takeaways, without access to drink.

This isn't about freedom of choice - there are plenty of places you can get your booze if you really can't manage a meal without it.

The message we give kids today is that you can't enjoy life without a drink in your hand. 


You describing alcoholics who need help. Most people, DON'T live that lifestyle. 

An alcoholic, like a smoker, will get his/her fix regardless on how available it is. Why would he go into Wendy's when instead he can go into the local supermarket and get his fix at half the price. 


There was a discussion on Nat Radio about this yesterday afternoon, with a comment made that liberalisation of alcohol laws in NZ had the intent of "normalising" moderate alcohol consumption to be like France, but we ended up more like Russia.  That's probably a vast exaggeration.

My 22YO's group of friends, over the years there seems to be almost random use/abuse of alcohol. It's not easy IMO to correlate anything, education, home environment, to how they treat alcohol.
The worst / most immediately dangerous abuse I've seen seemed to be with young (16-18yo) girls.  Aside from the personal safety risk of getting near comatose, some have been in grave danger from alcohol poisoning.  I've had the late night call - "what should I do - xxxxx's passed out unconscious after drinking tumblers of vodka and we can't wake her up".  1) call ambulance, stay with her, make sure she can breathe doesn't choke to death etc 2) call parents 3) get in car to mount backup rescue mission.  Not fun at 2:00am.

One thing which I've really noticed is treating it as a normal "rite of passage".  This comes out at 21st birthday party speeches, some pretty alarming (IMO) stories shared amongst all.  I don't know if it's rose tinted spectacles, but I'm pretty damned sure that such stories would have never come out in speeches in front of great aunties when I was 21, let alone to cheers and applause. This isn't kids from the wrong side of the tracks, but wealthy professional parents, doctors, lawyers whatever.  




I agree Fred. We clearly have a binge drinking culture and I read recently that teen girls are just as bad if not worse than the guys.

What though has this got to do with Wendys?  Or Restaurants, i.e. the traditonal kind, the smaller kind too. The issue we have is here without the help of Wendys. And with what a beer will cost at Wendys its not the place for drinkers to acquire drink, its the place where on a nice summers day/night, I might have a cold one instead of a fanta with the family

IMHO the subset of binge boozers does not overlap the subset of thiose that have a beer over a meal at an eating place. Those who dislike drinking beer/wine/spirits have an issue with that topic not with Wendys, Wendys is just the conduit for the rasing of a wider issue

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7
Filter this topic showing only the reply marked as answer View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



Twitter and LinkedIn »



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Vodafone 5G service live in four cities
Posted 10-Dec-2019 08:30


Samsung Galaxy Fold now available in New Zealand
Posted 6-Dec-2019 00:01


NZ company oDocs awarded US$ 100,000 Dubai World Expo grant
Posted 5-Dec-2019 16:00


New Zealand Rugby Selects AWS-Powered Analytics for Deeper Game Insights
Posted 5-Dec-2019 11:33


IMAGR and Farro bring checkout-less supermarket shopping to New Zealand
Posted 5-Dec-2019 09:07


Wellington Airport becomes first 5G connected airport in the country
Posted 3-Dec-2019 08:42


MetService secures Al Jazeera as a new weather client
Posted 28-Nov-2019 09:40


NZ a top 10 connected nation with stage one of ultra-fast broadband roll-out completed
Posted 24-Nov-2019 14:15


Microsoft Translator understands te reo Māori
Posted 22-Nov-2019 08:46


Chorus to launch Hyperfibre service
Posted 18-Nov-2019 15:00


Microsoft launches first Experience Center worldwide for Asia Pacific in Singapore
Posted 13-Nov-2019 13:08


Disney+ comes to LG Smart TVs
Posted 13-Nov-2019 12:55


Spark launches new wireless broadband "Unplan Metro"
Posted 11-Nov-2019 08:19


Malwarebytes overhauls flagship product with new UI, faster engine and lighter footprint
Posted 6-Nov-2019 11:48


CarbonClick launches into Digital Marketplaces
Posted 6-Nov-2019 11:42



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.