Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8
794 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 355

Subscriber

  Reply # 1430584 18-Nov-2015 19:23
One person supports this post
Send private message

DarthKermit: The govt could put on a big ticker-tape parade for our returning citizens, like they did with the rugby guys recently. undecided



Perhaps we could use "Police Tape".... :-)


5061 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1030

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1430608 18-Nov-2015 19:51
Send private message

meesham:
sir1963: 
I would be more comfortable knowing that a government worked well within the law, and more importantly allowed the police and the courts to do their job without political interference.

"reasonably suspects" is a long way from proof, hell people have even been freed from prison as new evidence has proven a jury of 12 has been wrong. What would the minister do here, deport them because for the last x many years they had been associating with criminals while wrongly convicted in prison.

Whats next, throwing anyone of the muslim faith out on the suspicion they might break the law ?



As I linked previously, NZ has similar conditions in their "character requirements" - if the Minister decides you're a risk they can reject your visa application without you having committed a crime. The UK have similar rules and I'd imagine most countries would have these conditions (but I've not checked).

I don't agree with using Christmas Island, I don't see the point of it and I agree with most of the points made about it - but my sympathy is with the genuine refugee applicants that have to be there while they wait to hear if they'll be accepted.


I see the retroactive aspect as very unfair. OK, change the threshold from 2 years in jail down to one year.....but implement it from tomorrow. Don't go about rounding up people who got out of jail months ago on short sentences - with their family and back at work -  and deporting them. 




____________________________________________________
I'm on a high fibre diet. 

 

High fibre diet


509 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 155
Inactive user


  Reply # 1430706 18-Nov-2015 21:39
Send private message

What does international human rights commission , and for that matter international law say about detaining people without charge ?
I'd like to see how much serco spent lobbying the au govt as they certainly have done in other countries in order to keep their prisons /venues full. Human rights are not mutually exclusive to clean records, if that's to be the case they should change the law and inform the public prior.
Our own pm suggested that it was not worth bringing this up via a "third party" (referring to the human rights commission) which is odd given his quite common facilitation of third party's on other matters and that close on 70 countries have raised this same issue with the ihrc and the UN.
Australias stance on asylum seekers is harsh , I realise it is a difficult issue but people seeking asylum are not doing it for a change of scenery.

11255 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3581

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1430759 18-Nov-2015 23:01
Send private message

turnin: What does international human rights commission , and for that matter international law say about detaining people without charge ?
I'd like to see how much serco spent lobbying the au govt as they certainly have done in other countries in order to keep their prisons /venues full. Human rights are not mutually exclusive to clean records, if that's to be the case they should change the law and inform the public prior.
Our own pm suggested that it was not worth bringing this up via a "third party" (referring to the human rights commission) which is odd given his quite common facilitation of third party's on other matters and that close on 70 countries have raised this same issue with the ihrc and the UN.
Australias stance on asylum seekers is harsh , I realise it is a difficult issue but people seeking asylum are not doing it for a change of scenery.


What does it matter what it says? It's words on a piece of paper that can be ignored at will. It has only the importance that individual governments choose to give it - in this case, not a lot.

In any case, the law of Australia (probably - I have not read it and IANAL) was correctly enacted to say that persons with no visas are to be detained until they exhaust their appeals and are then to be deported. That is not detention without charge.





11255 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3581

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1430760 18-Nov-2015 23:04
Send private message

Rikkitic: If we go to war, then surrender, we will be conquered and become part of Australia. Then deportees can live wherever they like.



True - although we could probably just ask them if we can join. 

We should try and harmonise more than we do IMO.





509 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 155
Inactive user


  Reply # 1430796 19-Nov-2015 00:05
Send private message

I think your words on paper argument needs a little ..... Oh never mind.

2964 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 446

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1430803 19-Nov-2015 01:36
Send private message

Rikkitic: If we go to war, then surrender, we will be conquered and become part of Australia. Then deportees can live wherever they like.



That's completely unnecessary. All it would take is a single act of (NZ) Parliament to utterly dissolve the sovereign nation of New Zealand and make it part of Australia. Australia literally wouldn't even get a choice in the matter because the Constitution already includes New Zealand as a state. On page one.

7799 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 779

Subscriber

  Reply # 1430911 19-Nov-2015 08:43
One person supports this post
Send private message

Kyanar:
Rikkitic: If we go to war, then surrender, we will be conquered and become part of Australia. Then deportees can live wherever they like.



That's completely unnecessary. All it would take is a single act of (NZ) Parliament to utterly dissolve the sovereign nation of New Zealand and make it part of Australia. Australia literally wouldn't even get a choice in the matter because the Constitution already includes New Zealand as a state. On page one.


Won't happen.  Can you imagine john Key or the like  just being a state governor and not getting to hob nob with the world elite.  The NZ polys  are too wedded to their perks..




Regards,

Old3eyes


Mad Scientist
18436 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2336

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1431015 19-Nov-2015 11:10
Send private message

Why would anyone want to be a part of Australia? Have you actually lived there under their system? 

7341 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3446

Subscriber

  Reply # 1431069 19-Nov-2015 12:17
Send private message

I have heard (don't know if it is true) that when the Federation was formed, Australia so assumed NZ would want to join that they didn't even bother to ask and were very put out when we said 'no, thank you'. 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


794 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 355

Subscriber

  Reply # 1431089 19-Nov-2015 13:13
Send private message

Rikkitic: I have heard (don't know if it is true) that when the Federation was formed, Australia so assumed NZ would want to join that they didn't even bother to ask and were very put out when we said 'no, thank you'. 



http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/page/nz-says-no-aussie-federation

And another 100+ years later things have not changed, we are STILL superior sealed

4354 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1726


  Reply # 1431092 19-Nov-2015 13:20
One person supports this post
Send private message

Wow. From an immigration issue to trans-Tasman war and assimilation of NZ into Australia in one thread ...

The way I see it: -

Australia are being tough, but are consistent with their own law.
These people are legally visitors with an entitlement to work who never left.
If you are visitor to another country you break the law (which includes associating with criminal gangs) at your peril, don't whine about the consequences.

Were most of the 'detainees' unaware of the consequences of their unlawful actions? Probably, but ignorance of the law has never been a defense.

Is this a racist policy?  Probably not. 

Does it reflect the socio-economic disparities that exist in most/all countries.  Probably yes.






Mike

7341 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3446

Subscriber

  Reply # 1431112 19-Nov-2015 13:44
Send private message

I suspect every policy in Australia has at least an element of racism in it.

I think what people are getting indignant about here, and certainly I am, is the aspect of people being taken to Australia through no choice of their own when infants or toddlers and having grown up there. I doubt most of them even realised they weren't 'real' Aussies when they fell afoul of the law. Most people like that probably don't visit their local libraries to read up on the technicalities of the law. When you grow up in a place and spend all of your life there, you probably just assume it is where you belong.

No excuse for crime, of course, but people (especially young people) do make dumb mistakes and it seems that a very wide range of misdeeds is being lumped together here under the 'crime' label. There is also the retroactive aspect of this. These people are also unlikely to check the news for the latest decisions of Parliament before setting out on their crime sprees, but it seems plausible that some word of the new 'tough' approach will filter down to the streets. Those currently caught up in this will not have had the benefit of that warning. The policy stinks and is unjust. It is as simple as that.
 




I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


4354 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1726


  Reply # 1431115 19-Nov-2015 13:47
Send private message

If you have evidence of racism in policies please present it. 

It's an easy and emotive card to play, but rarely backed up.




Mike

7341 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3446

Subscriber

  Reply # 1431126 19-Nov-2015 14:02
Send private message

Australia has a history of institutional racism. Ask any aboriginal or early Asian immigrant.

My personal opinion, not based on academic research but developed from anecdotal experience, is that the society has a whole is still significantly racist. None of my ozzie friends are, as far as I know, otherwise they wouldn't be my friends. Neither are many, many other individual Australians. But overall I think it is still a racist country. That is just my opinion.

 




I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic

Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

N4L helping TAKA Trust bridge the digital divide for Lower Hutt students
Posted 18-Jun-2018 13:08


Winners Announced for 2018 CIO Awards
Posted 18-Jun-2018 13:03


Logitech Rally sets new standard for USB-connected video conference cameras
Posted 18-Jun-2018 09:27


Russell Stanners steps down as Vodafone NZ CEO
Posted 12-Jun-2018 09:13


Intergen recognised as 2018 Microsoft Country Partner of the Year for New Zealand
Posted 12-Jun-2018 08:00


Finalists Announced For Microsoft NZ Partner Awards
Posted 6-Jun-2018 15:12


Vocus Group and Vodafone announce joint venture to accelerate fibre innovation
Posted 5-Jun-2018 10:52


Kogan.com to launch Kogan Mobile in New Zealand
Posted 4-Jun-2018 14:34


Enable doubles fibre broadband speeds for its most popular wholesale service in Christchurch
Posted 2-Jun-2018 20:07


All or Nothing: New Zealand All Blacks arrives on Amazon Prime Video
Posted 2-Jun-2018 16:21


Innovation Grant, High Tech Awards and new USA office for Kiwi tech company SwipedOn
Posted 1-Jun-2018 20:54


Commerce Commission warns Apple for misleading consumers about their rights
Posted 30-May-2018 13:15


IBM leads Call for Code to use cloud, data, AI, blockchain for natural disaster relief
Posted 25-May-2018 14:12


New FUJIFILM X-T100 aims to do better job than smartphones
Posted 24-May-2018 20:17


Stuff takes 100% ownership of Stuff Fibre
Posted 24-May-2018 19:41



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.