What could/should NZ do about the Kiwi detainees.

Forums › Off topic › What could/should NZ do about the Kiwi detainees.

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frankv

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# 1431161 19-Nov-2015 14:15

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MikeAqua: If you are visitor to another country you break the law (which includes associating with criminal gangs) at your peril, don't whine about the consequences.

Except that there needs to be some kind of judicial process to prove that you did in fact break the law. Did he in fact associate with the gang? Was that gang illegal? And the first step in that process is a charge being laid.

Except in tinpot dictatorships and Middle Eastern fiefdoms and so on, of course.

turnin

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# 1431232 19-Nov-2015 16:07

MikeAqua: If you have evidence of racism in policies please present it.

It's an easy and emotive card to play, but rarely backed up.

Aboriginals were not considered citizens of Australia until 1967, and some were regulated under Flora and Fauna Law. The federal constitution, written in 1900, explicitly stated that Aboriginals would not be counted in any state or federal census. Queensland was the last state in Australia to grant state voting rights to Aboriginals in 1965; Aboriginals in the Northern Territory were considered “wards of the state” and were not allowed to vote in federal elections unless they were ex-servicemen up until 1962. Voting and citizenship rights for Aboriginals were written into the constitution with a 1967 referendum, which also removed discriminatory references to Aboriginals from the Constitution and gave Parliament the power to make laws pertaining to Indigenous Peoples (previous to that, state governments had total law-making power over Aborigines). The referendum set a voting record, with 90.77 percent of the entire population voting in favor of it. Interestingly, the highest percentage of “no” votes were recorded in territories with the highest Aboriginal populations, suggesting that anti-Indigenous racism was still rampant in many areas of Australia (since the passage of the Race Discrimination Act in 1975, 10,5000 complaints have been filed with the government, with more than 3,500 of those coming from Aboriginals and Torres Strait Islanders). However, though voting is mandatory for all Australian citizens, voting was not made compulsory for Aborigines until 1983. Queensland has lagged behind in many Indigenous rights laws – Queensland Aborigines could be forced to live on reserves until 1971, and could not own their own property until 1975. In 1959, Aboriginals became eligible to receive pensions and maternity leave, but only if they were not “nomadic or primitive,” and often group payments were made to reserves or missions rather than individuals or communities. Though many of these discriminatory laws were changed in the 1960s and 1970s, others were being created – legislation created in the 1970s requires that the estate of an Aboriginal who dies without leaving a will should be automatically put in the hands of a public trustee, rather than granted to the next of kin as is the case with non-Aboriginals. The Law Reform Committee recommended that this law be changed in 2008, and the Department of Indigenous Affairs confirmed in 2012 that they are “considering it.” Also contentious is New South Wales’ Flora and Fauna Law under the National Parks and Wildlife Act. This law claims that the majority of Aboriginal artifacts are “property of the crown,” and claims jurisdiction over all Aboriginal heritage and culture. Aboriginals, understandably, object to their culture being regulated under an act meant to protect vegetation and wild animals. New South Wales is the only state in Australia not to have a stand-alone Aboriginal Heritage Act, and activists have been lobbying for one for the past thirty years.

turnin

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# 1431239 19-Nov-2015 16:18

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_of_Indigenous_Australians

I could go on but I will respect the topic, but history is a bitch isn't it ?

Batman

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# 1431298 19-Nov-2015 18:23

Unlike in NZ, higher death rates in Maori -> not given equal healthcare when Treaty guarantees equality.
Want to free up 4g spectrum -> alleged violating Maori sovereignty when Treaty guarantees sovereignty of Maoridom

Australia by comparison -> racist. Till today the Aboriginals have no to few rights to any representation.

Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.

UHD

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# 1431628 20-Nov-2015 11:12

I haven't seen a lot of concern for the practicalities of shifting 500 people with potentially no ties or family back to NZ. I can actually understand John Key's reluctance to act quickly because simply dumping them on the streets and telling them they need to show up for probabation is actually worse than leaving them in a detention centre.

A lot of people seem to be failing to grasp the fact that they are being forced to come home. It is almost certain that their appeals will be denied whether they appeal in Australia or NZ and that fact should be obvious by now. Even the guy with no convictions but associated to a motorcycle gang is extremely unlikely to win an appeal; such is the mood of Australia right now.

sir1963

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# 1431648 20-Nov-2015 11:57

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joker97: Unlike in NZ, higher death rates in Maori -> not given equal healthcare when Treaty guarantees equality.
Want to free up 4g spectrum -> alleged violating Maori sovereignty when Treaty guarantees sovereignty of Maoridom

Australia by comparison -> racist. Till today the Aboriginals have no to few rights to any representation.

Actually Maori healthcare is equal, if anything large sums of money are spent trying to get Maori to use the healthcare system. Likewise because Maori make up the greater portion of the poor, some of the issues are blamed on culture as opposed to financial. However there are issues all around the world with getting indigenous populations to use the healthcare system fully. Part of this is cultural, part is financial. Likewise things like diet, smoking and other lifestyle issues impact the poor/Maori in ways that are poorly documented/accepted.

A simple example, if you have a person with a head injury, you put them into an ambulance feet first because the ambulance can control acceleration , however it may not be able to control braking. This can cause blood to rush to the head causing more damage.

HOWEVER, some cultures believe if you place them feet first into an ambulance, that is a sign they will die.

Outcome between head/feet first are different because of the additional damage. But what does one do ?

It is not just a matter of saying "get over it" and become more pakeha.

Batman

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# 1431704 20-Nov-2015 13:42

I was just comparing the rights and voice of the Maori in NZ compared to their Aussie counterpart. Perhaps got something to do with the original Australians lol

Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.

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