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BDFL - Memuneh
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  # 1429423 17-Nov-2015 09:46
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I watched it. I am not saying he's lying. He might have not known but I don't think his "brothers are normal".






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  # 1429430 17-Nov-2015 10:13
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Often the first casualty of War is truth




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


 
 
 
 


Lock him up!
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  # 1429471 17-Nov-2015 10:35
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Geektastic:
Rikkitic:
tdgeek:
DaveB:
freitasm: Anonymous will run an operation targeting ISIS.

This is more than some Rambo keyboard-less warriors would do.



I'm not sure whether I should be laughing or cheering at this!


Perhaps this thread can discuss how to eradicate ISIS? Difficult yes, what we say wont be taken into consideration, but a very very difficult question. Well worth brainstorming.


Every country has disadvantaged minorities. Here it is Maori and Pacific Islanders. In France it is Arabs. The only way to stop movements like ISIS is to give young people of all backgrounds genuine equal opportunity. This means no covert racism, no discrimination, living standards the same as the majority population, same educational opportunities, equal employment opportunities. Make sure everyone feels like they are a legitimate part of society. Suicide bombers are people who have given up on life. They feel they have nothing to lose. So give them something to lose.



The day a purple unicorn rides by is the day that will happen.

The only way to deal with rabid dogs is put them down, not give them treats.


What is wrong with preventing them from becoming rabid dogs in the first place? Saves a lot of misery for everyone.





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  # 1429560 17-Nov-2015 12:11
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networkn: I think as well as those who have been killed and injured and their families etc, I think it's worth sparing a thought or two for the law enforcement, and medical personnel who are putting themselves in harms way during these times. 

.


This.

My girlfriend is a paramedic and (before we were seeing each other) and was called to go down to Chch after the second quake.

I honestly don't know how I would feel if something like this happened here and she was called to go out and put herself in harms way.



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  # 1429573 17-Nov-2015 12:28
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Geektastic:
Rikkitic:
tdgeek:
DaveB:
freitasm: Anonymous will run an operation targeting ISIS.

This is more than some Rambo keyboard-less warriors would do.



I'm not sure whether I should be laughing or cheering at this!


Perhaps this thread can discuss how to eradicate ISIS? Difficult yes, what we say wont be taken into consideration, but a very very difficult question. Well worth brainstorming.


Every country has disadvantaged minorities. Here it is Maori and Pacific Islanders. In France it is Arabs. The only way to stop movements like ISIS is to give young people of all backgrounds genuine equal opportunity. This means no covert racism, no discrimination, living standards the same as the majority population, same educational opportunities, equal employment opportunities. Make sure everyone feels like they are a legitimate part of society. Suicide bombers are people who have given up on life. They feel they have nothing to lose. So give them something to lose.



The day a purple unicorn rides by is the day that will happen.

The only way to deal with rabid dogs is put them down, not give them treats.


As shown by
Stalin
Pol Pot
North Korea
Idi Amin
etc, etc, etc

Turns out the the Rabid Dogs are the ones who are quickest to put others down.



SJB

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  # 1429791 17-Nov-2015 16:49
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ISIS will eventually fail without any intervention from the West.

All brutal regimes have from Stalin's Russia to Pol Pot's Cambodia although they sometimes last a long time. ISIS have established a de-facto state in parts of Iraq and Syria but when villages or towns are taken back from them they are empty, the original population having either fled or been killed.

You can't build a functioning state without having a large number of willing participants and apart from a few thousand fanatics they have no willing participants. The vast majority of them will lack the skills or intelligence to construct or run any form of society anyway.

Distressing though the attack in Paris and others have been they need to be kept in perspective. You are more likely to be hit by lightning than killed or injured by a terrorist attack even if you live in Afghanistan or Iraq.

The press, politicians and social media have a lot to answer for when these sorts of incidents occur by sensationalising them. President Hollande calling it a war against ISIS will only help in gaining them recruits. He's hopelessly incompetent.

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  # 1429807 17-Nov-2015 17:27
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SJB: ISIS will eventually fail without any intervention from the West.

All brutal regimes have from Stalin's Russia to Pol Pot's Cambodia although they sometimes last a long time. ISIS have established a de-facto state in parts of Iraq and Syria but when villages or towns are taken back from them they are empty, the original population having either fled or been killed.

You can't build a functioning state without having a large number of willing participants and apart from a few thousand fanatics they have no willing participants. The vast majority of them will lack the skills or intelligence to construct or run any form of society anyway.

Distressing though the attack in Paris and others have been they need to be kept in perspective. You are more likely to be hit by lightning than killed or injured by a terrorist attack even if you live in Afghanistan or Iraq.

The press, politicians and social media have a lot to answer for when these sorts of incidents occur by sensationalising them. President Hollande calling it a war against ISIS will only help in gaining them recruits. He's hopelessly incompetent.


I don't agree with much of this.  As I understand it, there's some local support from (persecuted) Sunni minorities.  When the villages are "taken back", then by western-assisted forces with drones / fighter jets, air support for ground forces etc - but fighting an ISIS "blended in" with the local community, then who could blame those civilian locals for fleeing? From some reports I've read, life for those locals is better under ISIS than before, they actually did get infrastructure working and their form of law and order installed, which was better than the previous chaos.

As for Hollande's "war on ISIS", well he's a politician - he has to do something.  Unfortunately, it's what they want and expect.  Drop large bombs from aircraft on ISIS occupied towns, and there will be civilian casualties.  These incidents will be played for all they're worth.  There will be a counter and hard-line view that those locals are "harbouring" or "sympathetic to" terrorists.  The reality is that they've probably got no choice. 

It's a huge festering mess - and a "big" problem.  Western support for stable government will always be misinterpreted by persecuted minorities.  Western support has been fickle and subject to changing self-interest, human rights abuse widespread, but western tolerance to it depends who's doing the killing.

 
 
 
 


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  # 1429810 17-Nov-2015 17:33
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Rikkitic:
Geektastic:
Rikkitic:
tdgeek:
DaveB:
freitasm: Anonymous will run an operation targeting ISIS.

This is more than some Rambo keyboard-less warriors would do.



I'm not sure whether I should be laughing or cheering at this!


Perhaps this thread can discuss how to eradicate ISIS? Difficult yes, what we say wont be taken into consideration, but a very very difficult question. Well worth brainstorming.


Every country has disadvantaged minorities. Here it is Maori and Pacific Islanders. In France it is Arabs. The only way to stop movements like ISIS is to give young people of all backgrounds genuine equal opportunity. This means no covert racism, no discrimination, living standards the same as the majority population, same educational opportunities, equal employment opportunities. Make sure everyone feels like they are a legitimate part of society. Suicide bombers are people who have given up on life. They feel they have nothing to lose. So give them something to lose.



The day a purple unicorn rides by is the day that will happen.

The only way to deal with rabid dogs is put them down, not give them treats.


What is wrong with preventing them from becoming rabid dogs in the first place? Saves a lot of misery for everyone.



Agreed. Your method is too complex and too expensive. Mine is shorter, simpler, cheaper and helps the planet by reducing the population problem....





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  # 1429811 17-Nov-2015 17:36
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Fred99:
SJB: ISIS will eventually fail without any intervention from the West.

All brutal regimes have from Stalin's Russia to Pol Pot's Cambodia although they sometimes last a long time. ISIS have established a de-facto state in parts of Iraq and Syria but when villages or towns are taken back from them they are empty, the original population having either fled or been killed.

You can't build a functioning state without having a large number of willing participants and apart from a few thousand fanatics they have no willing participants. The vast majority of them will lack the skills or intelligence to construct or run any form of society anyway.

Distressing though the attack in Paris and others have been they need to be kept in perspective. You are more likely to be hit by lightning than killed or injured by a terrorist attack even if you live in Afghanistan or Iraq.

The press, politicians and social media have a lot to answer for when these sorts of incidents occur by sensationalising them. President Hollande calling it a war against ISIS will only help in gaining them recruits. He's hopelessly incompetent.


I don't agree with much of this.  As I understand it, there's some local support from (persecuted) Sunni minorities.  When the villages are "taken back", then by western-assisted forces with drones / fighter jets, air support for ground forces etc - but fighting an ISIS "blended in" with the local community, then who could blame those civilian locals for fleeing? From some reports I've read, life for those locals is better under ISIS than before, they actually did get infrastructure working and their form of law and order installed, which was better than the previous chaos.

As for Hollande's "war on ISIS", well he's a politician - he has to do something.  Unfortunately, it's what they want and expect.  Drop large bombs from aircraft on ISIS occupied towns, and there will be civilian casualties.  These incidents will be played for all they're worth.  There will be a counter and hard-line view that those locals are "harbouring" or "sympathetic to" terrorists.  The reality is that they've probably got no choice. 

It's a huge festering mess - and a "big" problem.  Western support for stable government will always be misinterpreted by persecuted minorities.  Western support has been fickle and subject to changing self-interest, human rights abuse widespread, but western tolerance to it depends who's doing the killing.


Our problem is being unable to keep our noses out. If we had simply sealed the border where we are affected and ignored the messes the occupants of the Middle East are making all would be well.

Certain people can't help but decide it's our "duty" to butt in when they don't run things the way the West thinks they should.





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  # 1429829 17-Nov-2015 17:57
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Geektastic:
Fred99:
SJB: ISIS will eventually fail without any intervention from the West.

All brutal regimes have from Stalin's Russia to Pol Pot's Cambodia although they sometimes last a long time. ISIS have established a de-facto state in parts of Iraq and Syria but when villages or towns are taken back from them they are empty, the original population having either fled or been killed.

You can't build a functioning state without having a large number of willing participants and apart from a few thousand fanatics they have no willing participants. The vast majority of them will lack the skills or intelligence to construct or run any form of society anyway.

Distressing though the attack in Paris and others have been they need to be kept in perspective. You are more likely to be hit by lightning than killed or injured by a terrorist attack even if you live in Afghanistan or Iraq.

The press, politicians and social media have a lot to answer for when these sorts of incidents occur by sensationalising them. President Hollande calling it a war against ISIS will only help in gaining them recruits. He's hopelessly incompetent.


I don't agree with much of this.  As I understand it, there's some local support from (persecuted) Sunni minorities.  When the villages are "taken back", then by western-assisted forces with drones / fighter jets, air support for ground forces etc - but fighting an ISIS "blended in" with the local community, then who could blame those civilian locals for fleeing? From some reports I've read, life for those locals is better under ISIS than before, they actually did get infrastructure working and their form of law and order installed, which was better than the previous chaos.

As for Hollande's "war on ISIS", well he's a politician - he has to do something.  Unfortunately, it's what they want and expect.  Drop large bombs from aircraft on ISIS occupied towns, and there will be civilian casualties.  These incidents will be played for all they're worth.  There will be a counter and hard-line view that those locals are "harbouring" or "sympathetic to" terrorists.  The reality is that they've probably got no choice. 

It's a huge festering mess - and a "big" problem.  Western support for stable government will always be misinterpreted by persecuted minorities.  Western support has been fickle and subject to changing self-interest, human rights abuse widespread, but western tolerance to it depends who's doing the killing.


Our problem is being unable to keep our noses out. If we had simply sealed the border where we are affected and ignored the messes the occupants of the Middle East are making all would be well.

Certain people can't help but decide it's our "duty" to butt in when they don't run things the way the West thinks they should.


You mean ignoring security of oil supply, transport through Suez, and "butting in" to try to prevent Iran obtaining nuclear weapons?
Or butting in by supplying weapons to Saudi Arabia and other Arab states, and Israel?  
The failure (IMO) is the (dis)United Nations, rendered useless by veto power, used to protect strategic economic/military interests.
If the UN worked (no veto), then the world would be a better place.

Lock him up!
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  # 1429844 17-Nov-2015 18:19
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Geektastic: 

Agreed. Your method is too complex and too expensive. Mine is shorter, simpler, cheaper and helps the planet by reducing the population problem....


With all respect, I think your solution is frivolous and wouldn't work anyway. You can't just go in with guns blazing, and even if you could, all it would accomplish is to store up anger and resentment for the future, which is how we got to where we are today. 

The question was raised what can be done to prevent such a thing from happening again. I proposed an answer. I did not say it was easy, or even achievable, but something like it would have to happen to break the cycle of violent hatred. That is all.





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


gzt

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  # 1429866 17-Nov-2015 19:17
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The attacks in Paris are a provocation. Isis real intention is to cause a reaction.


Mad Scientist
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  # 1429885 17-Nov-2015 19:25
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I've had a good think about all these ideas for a solution.

Unfortunately there is no solution.

Slay everyone that is a potential threat. Hmm ... Slay EVERYONE then.

Stop everyone that is a potential threat from entering anywhere. Hmm ... Stop all forms of travel to/from anywhere.

Spy on everyone that is a potential threat. Spy on everyone. We had a thread not long ago and nobody wants that.

There is no solution.

In fact install dictators in each of the countries in turmoil has a better chance of succeeding eradicating these scum. Maybe we should do that.




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


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  # 1429886 17-Nov-2015 19:25
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Still have no idea where they get the money to fund their activities.




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


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  # 1429893 17-Nov-2015 19:37
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Geektastic:
Rikkitic:
Geektastic:
Rikkitic:
tdgeek:
DaveB:
freitasm: Anonymous will run an operation targeting ISIS.

This is more than some Rambo keyboard-less warriors would do.



I'm not sure whether I should be laughing or cheering at this!


Perhaps this thread can discuss how to eradicate ISIS? Difficult yes, what we say wont be taken into consideration, but a very very difficult question. Well worth brainstorming.


Every country has disadvantaged minorities. Here it is Maori and Pacific Islanders. In France it is Arabs. The only way to stop movements like ISIS is to give young people of all backgrounds genuine equal opportunity. This means no covert racism, no discrimination, living standards the same as the majority population, same educational opportunities, equal employment opportunities. Make sure everyone feels like they are a legitimate part of society. Suicide bombers are people who have given up on life. They feel they have nothing to lose. So give them something to lose.



The day a purple unicorn rides by is the day that will happen.

The only way to deal with rabid dogs is put them down, not give them treats.


What is wrong with preventing them from becoming rabid dogs in the first place? Saves a lot of misery for everyone.



Agreed. Your method is too complex and too expensive. Mine is shorter, simpler, cheaper and helps the planet by reducing the population problem....


From their perspective I am sure they believe the same things. You are not that different to them.

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