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  Reply # 1433870 24-Nov-2015 12:17
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Linuxluver:
Rikkitic: The relevance of Trade Me in today's e-commerce world is a subject that has been dealt with before but I feel impelled to revisit it once more.

I live at a rural address and I often need to buy small items. I used to use Trade Me for this but increasingly the traders there insist on using only courier post, with ridiculous charges for delivery to rural addresses. Often the postage is more than the cost of the item.

Yes, we all have friends in town to get around that but my question is why should we have to? I have posted about this on the Trade Me forum in the past and most of the responses were along the lines of it's only a few dollars so what is your problem? I guess my problem is that where I grew up the customer was always king. If this kind of service is what the customer wants, then it should be provided without question. Otherwise you go out of business. 

Today I ran into the same thing again. I needed a couple of small items and looked first on Trade Me. I sent a query to the seller and the response was not only could they not send it by ordinary post at my risk, but I could only pay for it through the bank, despite Pay Now being on the listing.

My response? Why bother? I went to Aliexpress and immediately found better alternatives for less money, not to mention free shipping to any address in New Zealand, rural or otherwise. Is it any wonder that Trade Me is losing customers? 


Couriers make it harder to claim you never received the parcel....and there are people who do this all the time. Sad, but true. 


Hardly: I can't tell you the number of signature required items I have had left at our house with no signature..!





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  Reply # 1433871 24-Nov-2015 12:19
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Geektastic:

Hardly: I can't tell you the number of signature required items I have had left at our house with no signature..!


In which case a claim can be made with the courier for the losses. Eventually. After many hoops to jump thru.




Richard rich.ms

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1433873 24-Nov-2015 12:20
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Geektastic:
Linuxluver:
Rikkitic: The relevance of Trade Me in today's e-commerce world is a subject that has been dealt with before but I feel impelled to revisit it once more.

I live at a rural address and I often need to buy small items. I used to use Trade Me for this but increasingly the traders there insist on using only courier post, with ridiculous charges for delivery to rural addresses. Often the postage is more than the cost of the item.

Yes, we all have friends in town to get around that but my question is why should we have to? I have posted about this on the Trade Me forum in the past and most of the responses were along the lines of it's only a few dollars so what is your problem? I guess my problem is that where I grew up the customer was always king. If this kind of service is what the customer wants, then it should be provided without question. Otherwise you go out of business. 

Today I ran into the same thing again. I needed a couple of small items and looked first on Trade Me. I sent a query to the seller and the response was not only could they not send it by ordinary post at my risk, but I could only pay for it through the bank, despite Pay Now being on the listing.

My response? Why bother? I went to Aliexpress and immediately found better alternatives for less money, not to mention free shipping to any address in New Zealand, rural or otherwise. Is it any wonder that Trade Me is losing customers? 


Couriers make it harder to claim you never received the parcel....and there are people who do this all the time. Sad, but true. 


Hardly: I can't tell you the number of signature required items I have had left at our house with no signature..!


I wonder if that more comes down to slack individuals trying to maximise the efficiency of their courier runs ($$$), rather than company policy...



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  Reply # 1433874 24-Nov-2015 12:21
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This point has been made several times. I don't know about the legal aspects, but I would think that a clear 'at your risk' notification ought to be adequate, especially if Trade Me supported this by not allowing negative feedback on at your risk deliveries. If the item then doesn't arrive, that is just too bad. That is what at your risk means.

I have done this many times in the past when traders were more willing to include regular post and I never had a single item fail to arrive in good time. Sometimes the regular post deliveries got here faster than the courier post ones.
 




I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 1433881 24-Nov-2015 12:35
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Rikkitic:  I don't know about the legal aspects, but I would think that a clear 'at your risk' notification ought to be adequate, 
 


You can not contract out of the Consumer Guarantees Act, regardless if it is the buyer or the seller who initiates the attempt to contract out.  

The CGA requires that the seller ensure delivery, the buyer can not say "at my risk", or if they do the seller must still assume the risk ultimately because such a contracting-out is unenforceable.







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  Reply # 1433885 24-Nov-2015 12:41
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Rikkitic: This point has been made several times. I don't know about the legal aspects, but I would think that a clear 'at your risk' notification ought to be adequate, especially if Trade Me supported this by not allowing negative feedback on at your risk deliveries. If the item then doesn't arrive, that is just too bad. That is what at your risk means.


Law does not allow for that. If you are paying the seller for the delivery of goods then they have to warranty the delivery as much as the goods themselves. Many sellers do not understand their obligations on trademe and trademe do nothing to try to educate sellers so its all a bit of a mes.




Richard rich.ms



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  Reply # 1433886 24-Nov-2015 12:42
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I'm sure you are right but it doesn't seem sensible to me. If an auction has regular post 'at your risk' and risk-free post via courier, what is the problem? At least it gives the buyer a choice.




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  Reply # 1433887 24-Nov-2015 12:44
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Rikkitic: I'm sure you are right but it doesn't seem sensible to me. If an auction has regular post 'at your risk' and risk-free post via courier, what is the problem? At least it gives the buyer a choice.


The problem is that the sellers have to guarantee that the goods are fit for purpose, ones that do not arrive are not fit for purpose.

If you feel that you should be able to contract out of it then talk to your MP about why the law states that you cannot contract out of the CGA when selling to a consumer.




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  Reply # 1433890 24-Nov-2015 12:46
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Rikkitic: I'm sure you are right but it doesn't seem sensible to me. If an auction has regular post 'at your risk' and risk-free post via courier, what is the problem? At least it gives the buyer a choice.


You need to note think of it from the recipients POV, but rather the sellers POV - even if someone accepts "at your risk" or asks for "at my risk" - the onus is still back on the seller and it is always the seller who is out of pocket.

As others have said, TradeMe as absolutely useless as they happily take everyones money, but won't lift a finger when there is an issue. Very different to eBay - chalk and cheese.

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  Reply # 1433892 24-Nov-2015 12:49
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Rikkitic: If an auction has regular post 'at your risk' and risk-free post via courier.


That is in fact an even bigger problem legally, because if it is the seller (in trade) who says 'at your risk' then not only is it unenforceable under the CGA, but it is a violation of the Fair Trading Act as an attempt to mislead the customer about their rights.




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  Reply # 1433898 24-Nov-2015 13:11
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Ok I give up. It still doesn't seem sensible to me but I accept that this is the way it is. It wouldn't be the first instance of poor law-making.





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  Reply # 1433907 24-Nov-2015 13:25
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I don't think that laws to make sure you get what you paid for are bad.




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  Reply # 1433918 24-Nov-2015 13:43
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I default to Amazon for all purchases now. For the kind of things I am after it's all I need. The only thing I'd use Trade Me for today would be to sell that crappy couch for a $1 reserve just to get someone to take it away.

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  Reply # 1433923 24-Nov-2015 13:55
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CGA doesn't apply to private sellers. 





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  Reply # 1433930 24-Nov-2015 14:06
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scuwp: CGA doesn't apply to private sellers. 



Came here just to write that.

If it's a business you're buying from then yes, it applies.  A business selling via Trademe isn't removed from their obligations under the CGA.

A private sale, by a non business seller, isn't covered by the CGA.



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