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nakedmolerat
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  #1434630 25-Nov-2015 16:10
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DarthKermit: The Turks say they warned the Russian plane ten times, the Russians say that no warning was received. Which version of events is the correct one?

We don't know jack at this point.


Afaik, the fighter jet should have make visual contact - they need to attempt to see who is in the plane but this definitely did not happen.

Remember, there are two unescorted bombers, one return and this one got shot.





MikeB4
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  #1434635 25-Nov-2015 16:20
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Linuxluver:
MikeB4: This is a dangerous change. Turkey is a NATO member, the  mutual defense treaties could make this very messy depending on Mr Putin's next move. I hope Europe has its best diplomats working on this.
 

This isn't 1914. 

NATO won't blindly go to war against Russia over something like this. if Russia starts bombing Turkey.....then I could see things going the wrong way.  More likely Russia will have fighter escorts and start shooting Turkish planes down over Syria.  


NATO has mutual defence treaties in the event of one or more of the member states being attacked. I don't believe thinking has changed in the last 100+ years

 
 
 
 


Dunnersfella
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  #1434791 25-Nov-2015 20:05
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Safe to say there won't be any Turkey for Christmas this year...

semigeek
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  #1434832 25-Nov-2015 21:20
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This from the BBC, 25 minutes ago: 

 

Breaking off military contacts with Turkey, Russia's defence ministry said a cruiser equipped with an air defence system would be deployed in the Mediterranean to destroy "any targets representing a potential danger" for Russian forces in Syria.

 

Russian bombers carrying out air strikes over Syria will now be escorted by fighters, the military said.

Batman
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  #1434835 25-Nov-2015 21:24
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A violation is a violation. If you get anywhere near the US border you will be toast, nevermind enter it.




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


Geektastic
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  #1434859 25-Nov-2015 21:58
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MikeB4: There must be something in the water in Europe that makes them go nuts every generation


Perhaps if you shared land borders with anywhere, you may find out why....!





Geektastic
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  #1434864 25-Nov-2015 22:07
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Having been to Turkey a few times, it is a strange mix of the third world and the first world. Most people I know have been dreading the prospect of it joining the EU (and thankfully the disaster of Greece etc may have at least deferred that for some time) because it will inevitably cost the net contributors a vast sum of money to fund new roads, railways, hospitals and so forth as well as bridging the land border with some of the least useful places in the world.

It has a fairly modern military (as Comrade Putin just found out) on the one hand and yet on others is reminiscent of a mediterranean Cambodia. Also, whilst purportedly secular and religiously tolerant, it is over 98% Islam. It's pretty hard to guess what views and behaviours such an environment will throw up next, I would have thought.





 
 
 
 


Batman
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  #1434869 25-Nov-2015 22:09
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Anyone here play Civilization Revolution? 

Anyway, we are about that close to WW3 at the moment. No kidding.




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MikeB4
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  #1434871 25-Nov-2015 22:11
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Geektastic:
MikeB4: There must be something in the water in Europe that makes them go nuts every generation


Perhaps if you shared land borders with anywhere, you may find out why....!


Good point, our nearest is a sea away and that's too close

Geektastic
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  #1434872 25-Nov-2015 22:14
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MikeB4:
Geektastic:
MikeB4: There must be something in the water in Europe that makes them go nuts every generation


Perhaps if you shared land borders with anywhere, you may find out why....!


Good point, our nearest is a sea away and that's too close


Indeed. Imagine if 800,000 people could simply walk in....





MikeB4
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  #1434873 25-Nov-2015 22:14
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joker97: Anyone here play Civilization Revolution? 

Anyway, we are about that close to WW3 at the moment. No kidding.


I doubt WW3 is around the corner. Putin will play this to get some of the sanctions removed which the West will grant in order to de-escalate.

Hammerer
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  #1434896 25-Nov-2015 23:52
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MikeB4:
joker97: Anyone here play Civilization Revolution? 

Anyway, we are about that close to WW3 at the moment. No kidding.


I doubt WW3 is around the corner. Putin will play this to get some of the sanctions removed which the West will grant in order to de-escalate.


A good point about appeasement but all this sounds way too familiar. I think this makes it is difficult to exclude WW3 from a list of viable outcomes when we have unstable regimes and parties with fragmented objectives, relatively strong blocs/alliances, and an arena of unresolved conflicts. Add some political brinkmanship and we could get very unpredictable results.

Stan
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  #1434900 26-Nov-2015 01:43
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17 Seconds is by Turkeys account Russia insists it never entered the airspace infact for it to be 17 seconds by Turkeys own data the SU24 would have been flying at 391kph stall speed, for a jet like that if it infact did enter there air space it would have been under 7 seconds.

Interestingly enough the "moderate" rebel groups seem to be fairly happy selling the free toys the US gives them to Isis.

nakedmolerat
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  #1434912 26-Nov-2015 07:08
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One of the pilot was saved from those rebels (backed by US and Turkey). They killed one of them.

No warning, no visual contact, no parallel path was taken by Turkey fighter jets (backed by military radar). They were shot by surprise - no maneuver attempted to evade the missile.

The kurds found tunnels used by ISIS with loads of ammunition from the US.

I think anyone with common sense can see what's happening here.





MikeB4
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  #1434927 26-Nov-2015 07:49
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nakedmolerat: One of the pilot was saved from those rebels (backed by US and Turkey). They killed one of them.

No warning, no visual contact, no parallel path was taken by Turkey fighter jets (backed by military radar). They was taken by surprise - no maneuver attempt to evade the missile whatsoever.

The kurds found tunnels used by ISIS with loads of ammunition from the US.

I think anyone with common sense can see what's happening here.


As an advert goes from a few years back.....

"There's more to Rice Bubbles than meets the eye"

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