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BTR

BTR
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  #1434950 26-Nov-2015 08:50
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The ironic thing is Russia is one of Turkeys biggest economic partners along with Germany and Iran.

Russia also supply Turkey with Natural Gas

Linuxluver
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  #1434960 26-Nov-2015 09:01
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DarthKermit: The Turks say they warned the Russian plane ten times, the Russians say that no warning was received. Which version of events is the correct one?

We don't know jack at this point.


They are probably both correct. The Turks may have warned on a frequency the Russians weren't listening to. 

Further.....the Russians may well have been over Syria....as the Turks have unilaterally declared a 5 mile buffer zone over the Syrian side of the border as being "Turkish airspace". Russia would not have recognised that. 

In any case...the idiots in this piece are the Turks. They have opened Pandora's Box.  Russia's response (almost certainly) won't be military. Putin is a measured, careful guy so far. His chest-thumping image is for public consumption / propaganda.




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Linuxluver
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  #1434962 26-Nov-2015 09:04
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joker97: A violation is a violation. If you get anywhere near the US border you will be toast, nevermind enter it.


Like on 9/11. 

The other countries in the area will have radar signals. They will know who was where. NATO won't be going to war with Russia over BS like this. 




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Batman
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  #1435052 26-Nov-2015 10:57
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Linuxluver:
joker97: A violation is a violation. If you get anywhere near the US border you will be toast, nevermind enter it.


Like on 9/11. 

The other countries in the area will have radar signals. They will know who was where. NATO won't be going to war with Russia over BS like this. 


There are two points to be made.

1. A violation of airspace is serious and any action is justified.

2. Was there
-a violation in airspace. At the moment we don't know.
-Was there any warnings of getting too close to violating Turkish airspace. We don't know, but i suspect yes. And o suspect this is not the first time. And I suspect the Kremlin doesn't care, as it flies its fighter planes as close to any borders it likes. Recent, Swedish, usa, British.
- I suspect the Turks are protecting Syrian rebels of Turkish descent is the vibe I'm getting.




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


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  #1435055 26-Nov-2015 11:08
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joker97:
Linuxluver:
joker97: A violation is a violation. If you get anywhere near the US border you will be toast, nevermind enter it.


Like on 9/11. 

The other countries in the area will have radar signals. They will know who was where. NATO won't be going to war with Russia over BS like this. 


There are two points to be made.

1. A violation of airspace is serious and any action is justified.

2. Was there
-a violation in airspace. At the moment we don't know.
-Was there any warnings of getting too close to violating Turkish airspace. We don't know, but i suspect yes. And o suspect this is not the first time. And I suspect the Kremlin doesn't care, as it flies its fighter planes as close to any borders it likes. Recent, Swedish, usa, British.
- I suspect the Turks are protecting Syrian rebels of Turkish descent is the vibe I'm getting.


"A violation of airspace is serious and any action is justified."  No this is not correct, if  your assertion is correct  the a passenger plan violating airspace could be shot down.

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  #1435058 26-Nov-2015 11:10
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yes and it has happened.

17s is irrelevant.
at 1000km/h you can bomb just about anything you want in the 10 minutes it takes to scramble your F16s interceptors




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Batman
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  #1435062 26-Nov-2015 11:17
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The Russians do this all the time

Heck, they even *shot down a civillian plane themselves not very long ago.


* Nobody knows. But it was either Russia or Ukraine. The investigation is not 100% conclusive.




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


 
 
 
 


MikeB4
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  #1435066 26-Nov-2015 11:25
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joker97: yes and it has happened.

17s is irrelevant.
at 1000km/h you can bomb just about anything you want in the 10 minutes it takes to scramble your F16s interceptors


you said  any action is justified, being able to be done is a far cry from justifiable.

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  #1435067 26-Nov-2015 11:27
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semigeek
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  #1435077 26-Nov-2015 11:46
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3333117/Downed-Russian-pilot-picked-Syrian-army-envoy.html

Putin takes his revenge: Russia unleashes heavy bombardment on region held by Turkmen rebels who chanted 'Allahu Akbar' over the dead body of pilot shot down by Turkish F-16



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  #1435078 26-Nov-2015 11:46
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MikeB4:
joker97: yes and it has happened.

17s is irrelevant.
at 1000km/h you can bomb just about anything you want in the 10 minutes it takes to scramble your F16s interceptors


you said  any action is justified, being able to be done is a far cry from justifiable.


Yes it is justified. Sorry I need to put a disclaimer.
*I am not an international lawyer or ethicist, I just have the belief that airspace violation is never tolerated by any sovereign state.

PPS - what i don't understand is Syria allows jsut about anyone into its airspace for fun. But Turkey, no. Was there a violation? We don't know. Were the RUssians close? Certainly very close to Turkish airspace. That in itself does not justify shooting them down. But the US WILL under that circumstance.




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


MikeB4
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  #1435112 26-Nov-2015 12:32
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joker97:
MikeB4:
joker97: yes and it has happened.

17s is irrelevant.
at 1000km/h you can bomb just about anything you want in the 10 minutes it takes to scramble your F16s interceptors


you said  any action is justified, being able to be done is a far cry from justifiable.


Yes it is justified. Sorry I need to put a disclaimer.
*I am not an international lawyer or ethicist, I just have the belief that airspace violation is never tolerated by any sovereign state.

PPS - what i don't understand is Syria allows jsut about anyone into its airspace for fun. But Turkey, no. Was there a violation? We don't know. Were the RUssians close? Certainly very close to Turkish airspace. That in itself does not justify shooting them down. But the US WILL under that circumstance.


Syria does not have the assets to stop anyone, same as NZ we would struggle to stop a paper dart entering our airspace

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  #1435181 26-Nov-2015 13:13
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joker97: 
PPS - what i don't understand is Syria allows jsut about anyone into its airspace for fun.


This statement nails it! It completes everything what you have written earlier.

It shows that you don't even have any grasp of what is happening there.

Syria as a country is shrinking in size. They don't have the capacity of defending their air-space. This was so obvious to anyone who actually read and understand the news for the last few years... Few of their aeroplanes went astray and landed in other countries at the start of the civil war!





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  #1435222 26-Nov-2015 14:14
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Interesting...


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