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  Reply # 1438191 30-Nov-2015 22:18
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jmh:
trig42: Maybe since he wrote the cheque on a closed account, you could at least report it to the Police. That is using a document to gain pecuniary advantage I think?

Tell him you want the money by EOD tomorrow, or you will be filing a Police report. (Although, they will probably not show any interest, unless he's been doing it all over the place).


I rang the bank and they said to contact the police.  I've told the guy via email that I'm calling on the police this pm and he's panicking.  He has promised to pay by Wednesday, but this time he really will.  

I'm guessing I'm not the only one he did the cheque dodge on.

Sounds like a typical fraudster to me - all talk no action. I hope you have made an official complaint to police already rather than leaving this as an empty threat based on his obviously worthless word.

Writing a cheque against a closed account is a clear case of obtains by deception. At the end of the day, even if no prosecutorial action eventually results, at least police will have a record of your complaint which may be useful down the track.

It's possible too, if what you surmise in your last sentence turns out to be correct, there may be others who don't complain because of similar small amounts so you taking the bull by the horns could turn out to be good for them as well. You'll just have to hope he's not planning on skipping the country...

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  Reply # 1438203 30-Nov-2015 22:27
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traderstu: I waited for a good long spell of fine weather, figured he should have money in the bank, re-presented the cheque & 'hey presto'.



Genius...

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1438456 1-Dec-2015 11:54
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jmh:
trig42: Maybe since he wrote the cheque on a closed account, you could at least report it to the Police. That is using a document to gain pecuniary advantage I think?

Tell him you want the money by EOD tomorrow, or you will be filing a Police report. (Although, they will probably not show any interest, unless he's been doing it all over the place).


I rang the bank and they said to contact the police.  I've told the guy via email that I'm calling on the police this pm and he's panicking.  He has promised to pay by Wednesday, but this time he really will.  

I'm guessing I'm not the only one he did the cheque dodge on.


I used to work in a bank and every morning I would call clients regarding cheques that had insufficient funds to clear the cheque.

Here are some things I believe will help.
1) find out when he can pay. (along with what caused the cheque to be bounced (closed acct), and how it will be rectified) . And hold him to this, write an email to him summarising the conversation and when he said he will pay, remind him of what he said previously and if he has reneged on his word. Advise what will happen if he does not pay by the said date (e.g. veda (the current name for baycorp), step 3 below, increase invoiced amount due to collection costs).
2) ring everyday (the squeaky wheel gets the oil), even visit them (unannounced). It's harder for him to tell porkies face to face, plus you can also see items of value that he could sell in order to pay you and mention it to him.
3) advise others in your industry not to deal with this client, and advise the client that is what you will do.
4) never deal with the client again,
5) refuse to provide a product until funds are cleared.

Standard practice is to increase the amount of the invoice each month (say 2% per month), as you, the creditor, are using time and possibly also paying overdraft interest rates on your bank account, if it has caused your account to go overdrawn.

Be glad it was $400, and not $40,000. Your time is money and there comes a point where your time can be better utilised earning money from other clients than chasing this bad debtor. So if he doesn't pay up on Wednesday, lodge it with Veda and move on. Eventually he will come to the party because the record at Veda will pervade in to other aspects of his life. Also forgive him, so that you too can move on with the rest of your life.






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  Reply # 1438481 1-Dec-2015 12:36
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adw: Send him a new invoice with interest and fees (make sure you put a statement fee on it of e.g. $45, which is hopefully covered in your Ts & Cs), it's amazing how people will cough up the original amount.  Specify that no further statement will be sent and it will be handed over to a debt collection agency if all outstanding amounts aren't paid in 5 days with all collection fees being paid by him.


Once again, you cannot do this. If you haven't agreed before the original contract of sale is entered into that you can pass on collection costs, you can't do it. Nor can you add on interest or fees unless you've previously agreed to.

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  Reply # 1438513 1-Dec-2015 13:05
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Kyanar:
adw: Send him a new invoice with interest and fees (make sure you put a statement fee on it of e.g. $45, which is hopefully covered in your Ts & Cs), it's amazing how people will cough up the original amount.  Specify that no further statement will be sent and it will be handed over to a debt collection agency if all outstanding amounts aren't paid in 5 days with all collection fees being paid by him.


Once again, you cannot do this. If you haven't agreed before the original contract of sale is entered into that you can pass on collection costs, you can't do it. Nor can you add on interest or fees unless you've previously agreed to.


So if someone who has been cheated and mucked around decides to add on a healthy margin and it gets paid in full then are you saying it should be refunded? Heck, these people probably aren't the smartest types in the world and might be feeling a bit nervous and scared that their lies will be dealt with by some authorities, so may just pay up when someone takes things further than they anticipated.
I don't see the harm in adding some grief money - it may just cause them to pay the original amount quicker to stop the extra amounts being added on (legally or not), or they may pay the whole thing and be done with it (they're hardly going to hire a lawyer when they know they're in the wrong).




Cheers,
Mike

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  Reply # 1438624 1-Dec-2015 14:38
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Kiwifruta:

3) advise others in your industry not to deal with this client, and advise the client that is what you will do.



And you could risk being accused of slander, right or wrong...





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  Reply # 1438648 1-Dec-2015 14:56
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freitasm:
Kiwifruta:

3) advise others in your industry not to deal with this client, and advise the client that is what you will do.



And you could risk being accused of slander, right or wrong...



Really? I hear of industry blacklists often. It happens in the funeral insurance industry.

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  Reply # 1438671 1-Dec-2015 15:25
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Kyanar:
adw: Send him a new invoice with interest and fees (make sure you put a statement fee on it of e.g. $45, which is hopefully covered in your Ts & Cs), it's amazing how people will cough up the original amount.  Specify that no further statement will be sent and it will be handed over to a debt collection agency if all outstanding amounts aren't paid in 5 days with all collection fees being paid by him.


Once again, you cannot do this. If you haven't agreed before the original contract of sale is entered into that you can pass on collection costs, you can't do it. Nor can you add on interest or fees unless you've previously agreed to.


Most terms and conditions though shoul dhave such clauses.

I wonder what the process is if someone disputes the bill, but you can clearly shows in the terms that they have to pay it. Can you take it to a collection agency still? If you had to take it to a disputes tribunal, I don't believe you can then  charge any additional fees to cover the time and expense involved, and you may still not get your money if you win.

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  Reply # 1438680 1-Dec-2015 15:41
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Unfortunately the "professional dirt bags" who are adept at telling lies etc to weasel their way out of paying are often quite up to date with what can and can't be done by people to whom they owe money.

If you give them an opening to dispute the amount due or anything else related to the collection of the money, they will use this as their defense for non payment and may even use it to attack you and try and put you on the back foot.

When its "your money" that you are chasing, its difficult not to let emotion overrule law or logic, thats why its often best to leave it to the professionals.


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  Reply # 1438699 1-Dec-2015 16:09
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networkn:
richrdh18: Just contact baycorp, they'll take care of it. 
When I was running my business, I used to explain the TOC etc before starting the job etc, and then all the followup warning letters.  I gave up and went to baycorp.  A lot of it was for small jobs under $60 - 150, so people though it would matter.  But if you get a few of these then they all add up.  Yes barcorp take a small cut, but getting something back is better than nothing.  I also wanted the debt registered, so when they went to buy their big tv on tick, they would be able to, and in fact on couple got refused a home loan due to ignoring a baycorp letter all over a $40 debt. 


Just wondering how you would know they were refused a home loan?



Because they rang me and asked for me to contact baycorp and get them to wipe their record of a bad debt, which i did but, baycorp said due to the fact that they never paid up within the first notice period/time frame then this remained on their credit record.  Otherwise they wouldn't get their home loan. 

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  Reply # 1438721 1-Dec-2015 16:30
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Kyanar:
adw: Send him a new invoice with interest and fees (make sure you put a statement fee on it of e.g. $45, which is hopefully covered in your Ts & Cs), it's amazing how people will cough up the original amount.  Specify that no further statement will be sent and it will be handed over to a debt collection agency if all outstanding amounts aren't paid in 5 days with all collection fees being paid by him.


Once again, you cannot do this. If you haven't agreed before the original contract of sale is entered into that you can pass on collection costs, you can't do it. Nor can you add on interest or fees unless you've previously agreed to.


I am pretty sure the OP also did not agree that the invoice could be paid by a rubber cheque so surely once the cheque bounced then the purchaser was not longer honouring the original contact of sale... surely there must then be leeway for the vendor to add costs.

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  Reply # 1438811 1-Dec-2015 19:11
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I got an account with Baycorp.
I would send them official letters, stating terms and consequences.

Followed the procedure and 99% of the time on the final letter saying next step is Baycorp, they would pay.

Only 1 person never did, Baycorp harrassed him, he still didn't, but hey his name is still on their list.
Most do pay once it comes to that, but you do have to actually do it.

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  Reply # 1438832 1-Dec-2015 19:53
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clicknz: 

I don't see the harm in adding some grief money - it may just cause them to pay the original amount quicker to stop the extra amounts being added on (legally or not), or they may pay the whole thing and be done with it (they're hardly going to hire a lawyer when they know they're in the wrong).


The harm is that it's illegal, and attempting to do so violates the Fair Trading Act which carries very heavy penalties. You don't want to end up owing them money if they report you to the Commerce Commission do you?

keewee01:

I am pretty sure the OP also did not agree that the invoice could be paid by a rubber cheque so surely once the cheque bounced then the purchaser was not longer honouring the original contact of sale... surely there must then be leeway for the vendor to add costs.


Unfortunately not, the law has no such leeway. It does, however, have criminal (not civil, criminal) penalties for deliberately paying with rubber cheques or paying with rubber cheques and failing to rectify.

jmh



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  Reply # 1439673 3-Dec-2015 07:24
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Update:  I went to the police on Tuesday and made a statement about the cheque fraud.  They contacted me yesterday and asked me to go in and give more information.

The guy who owes me $400+ promised on Monday that this time he WOULD pay.  I thought, if it's sitting in my account this morning I might say to the police that I'm not interested in pursuing it.  Anyway, he has paid in $100 and indicated in the subject line that it is part payment.  No indication of when he plans to pay the rest. Clearly a stalling activity to stop me going to the police. 

So I will be back in there this morning with the stuff they need. 

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  Reply # 1439678 3-Dec-2015 07:35
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iCollect guys, drives me crazy hearing so many people suggesting going straight to debt collectors. Send the three letters through iCollect before even going near Baycorp.
But good to know about cheques bouncing being fraud and being able to chase up with the police.

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