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  Reply # 1446747 9-Dec-2015 21:18
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scuwp: It's not discrimination, it's common sense.  "Can you do the job?"  Seems pretty clear cut to me.  


The obvious answer to that question, if you want the job, also seems pretty clear cut.

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  Reply # 1446770 9-Dec-2015 21:38
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Seems a perfectly reasonable question to me. What might be unreasonable is if the question was "Do you have any health issues""

gzt

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  Reply # 1446810 9-Dec-2015 22:26
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TeaLeaf: Job processing, "Health" related questions. Your rights?


As an example you are a wheelchair user. You are applying for a job as a programmer. No - you do not have to mention the aid in your application. It will not affect your ability to do the job. An employer cannot discriminate because you use an aid. The employer additionally has some obligations to maintain an accessible workplace in that instance.

*(Yeah there are exceptions where an employer cannot maintain an accessible workplace but those are not relevant to our discussion)

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  Reply # 1446812 9-Dec-2015 22:33
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gzt:
TeaLeaf: Job processing, "Health" related questions. Your rights?


As an example you are a wheelchair user. You are applying for a job as a programmer. No - you do not have to mention the aid in your application. It will not affect your ability to do the job. An employer cannot discriminate because you use an aid. The employer additionally has some obligations to maintain an accessible workplace in that instance.

*(Yeah there are exceptions where an employer cannot maintain an accessible workplace but those are not relevant to our discussion)


Actually it is important to mention the use of a wheelchair to ensure access and safety.

For clarity I am a wheelchair user.




Mike
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UHD

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  Reply # 1446823 9-Dec-2015 23:20
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@TeaLeaf, from your PDF: "To find out whether a job applicant would be able to undertake a function that is intrinsic to the job."

It seems the UK can also ask whether or not you have a disability during pre-employment screening.

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Reply # 1446829 9-Dec-2015 23:36
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muppet: I'm confused.

Which part of: "Do you have any health issues which hinder you from performing your duties in your role"

Makes you think you'd ever have to answer yes to "but in your opinion it wouldn't hinder you from doing the job, do you have to list these?"

Here's a hypothetical situation:

Let's say you're applying for a job posting bizarre forum posts on websites for commercial gain.  You also have a bad case of whingeitus, but it doesn't stop you posting on forums, in fact sometime you feel it helps you write your posts.  In this case, you wouldn't have to list your case of whingeitus on the form, or disclose it.

If, however, you had no hands, no feet, and happened to be a mute, then you would probably have to write "I have no hands, no feet and I can't speak at all" on the form.  Or at least get someone to write it on the form for you.

I hope this clarifies the situation?


@muppet please don't do any posts like this again I just about fell off my chair laughing and hurt myself



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  Reply # 1446875 10-Dec-2015 07:52
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UHD: @TeaLeaf, from your PDF: "To find out whether a job applicant would be able to undertake a function that is intrinsic to the job."

It seems the UK can also ask whether or not you have a disability during pre-employment screening.


no they can ask on job offer, big difference, its so they can then make allowances. using it for job screening is the exact problem we seem to have in this country and how and when it came in im unaware of.



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  Reply # 1446877 10-Dec-2015 07:56
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surfisup1000:
Do you think the companies in Aus provide that insurance for free? You pay one way or another. 

And, if you are a limited liability company you have no personal liability anyway. Sure, they can sue your company but it is probably a service company with no assets.

I've worked in a few different countries and I don't think NZ is hodge podge at all. 


actually yes thats true, its about 4% (which is the same you will pay here, unless you wanna roll the dice) all up including payroll etc etc. but you dont have to keep paying for it 7 years after you leave the contract like you do here. lets say you do one contract for $10k in 7 years here, you going to be well out of pocket just in insurance alone.

i meant the agency providing you as a service is hodge podge here not that.

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  Reply # 1446893 10-Dec-2015 08:31
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The last time I lived in Australia (13-odd years ago now) I was a middle level manager and was heavily involved in recruitment. I'm pretty sure we used to ask a question like this.

There is a lot of time and money involved in hiring someone. Developing/updating/validating role descriptions, seeking budget approval to hire someone, writing a job ad, running the ad in several newspapers/websites, getting managers/HR people/etc. together for candidate screening and short listing, interviewing, evaluating, reference checking, possible security/credit checking, making offers, negotiating terms and conditions, entering people into HR/payroll systems, getting everything set up in the workplace for their start, orientation activities, role-specific training, etc. You don't want to go through all of this for an applicant for (say) a job that requires a lot of interpreting/analysing data, then on the second day in the job you find out they can't read.

Hmm, what to write...
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  Reply # 1447015 10-Dec-2015 10:55
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andrew027: The last time I lived in Australia (13-odd years ago now) I was a middle level manager and was heavily involved in recruitment. I'm pretty sure we used to ask a question like this.

There is a lot of time and money involved in hiring someone. Developing/updating/validating role descriptions, seeking budget approval to hire someone, writing a job ad, running the ad in several newspapers/websites, getting managers/HR people/etc. together for candidate screening and short listing, interviewing, evaluating, reference checking, possible security/credit checking, making offers, negotiating terms and conditions, entering people into HR/payroll systems, getting everything set up in the workplace for their start, orientation activities, role-specific training, etc. You don't want to go through all of this for an applicant for (say) a job that requires a lot of interpreting/analysing data, then on the second day in the job you find out they can't read.


Oh I thought in Australia that was a given..




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  Reply # 1447063 10-Dec-2015 12:01
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This is discrimination and a fully proper use of it.

Why would you hire someone that can't do the job?




Richard rich.ms

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  Reply # 1447072 10-Dec-2015 12:19
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TeaLeaf:
UHD: @TeaLeaf, from your PDF: "To find out whether a job applicant would be able to undertake a function that is intrinsic to the job."

It seems the UK can also ask whether or not you have a disability during pre-employment screening.


no they can ask on job offer, big difference, its so they can then make allowances. using it for job screening is the exact problem we seem to have in this country and how and when it came in im unaware of.


You should read the PDF document you linked. Asking about disability is specifically exempted when related to intrinsic job function.

Page 3:

 


The general position is that it is unlawful for an employer to ask any job applicant about their health or disability unless and until the applicant has been offered a job. (But note that there are a few specific circumstances when questions about health and disability can be asked.These are explained later in this guide.)

 


Item three in that list of specific circumstances:

 


3.To find out whether a job applicant would be able to undertake a function that is intrinsic to the job. An intrinsic function of a job is a function which, if it could not be performed, would mean that the job could not be carried out.

 


Example Mary applies for a job at a residential care home as a care assistant.An intrinsic element of the job is the ability to be able to help lift and physically support residents.The employer would be allowed to ask Mary questions relating to health or disability in order to determine whether Mary is capable of lifting and physically supporting residents because it is intrinsic to the job.

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  Reply # 1447080 10-Dec-2015 12:28
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TeaLeaf: lol you think workplace discrimination is a mole hill. are you a manager? im trying to figure out the legalities as it seems very ambiguous and open ended to ones own interpretation. of course if you are a landscaper and you bulging discs thats clear cut. but even then if you dont feel your injury will hinder your work, the question is "do you THINK"

like your bike by the way.


If I applied for a HD job, and the next person got the job as he/she had an extra quali, thats discrimination by your reasoning? If I applied as a builders labourer and the next guy, who is stronger than I got it, thats discrimination?

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  Reply # 1447122 10-Dec-2015 13:14
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The employer is entitled to establish if you can do the job.

The employer is obligated to establish if the job is safe for you.

Health questions may be important for both of these.

The list of prohibited discrimination in NZ is specific and discrimination on the grounds of physical or mental illness is prohibited.  But discrimination and unsuitability for the position are two different things.

For example a person can't be discriminated against because they have depression.  However, an employer might not employ a person to interact with customers who didn't present as positive and confident in an interview.




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  Reply # 1447125 10-Dec-2015 13:25
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Any new staff I am looking at taking on (Manufacturing sector) they have to go through a "Heavy Lifting" medical.




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