Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5
4738 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 876

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1451357 16-Dec-2015 10:11
3 people support this post
Send private message

Technofreak: I don't know about you but I'm always sceptical about the type of talk fests we've just witnessed in Paris about the climate change accord.

I came across this blog today.  It has some frightening figures.  

The cost of the agreement by 2030 will be 1-2 trillion annually. 

The agreed carbon emission reductions are less that 1% of what's actually required to keep temperature rises below 2 degrees.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/we-have-treaty-what-cost-bjorn-lomborg 

It all seems to be a very expensive waste of time to me.



A trillion / year is nothing compared to dead seas, 50m+ of sea level rise in 200 years and a risk that the atmosphere could go anoxic.

People who want to save a few dollars today and condemn their great grandchildren to war, disease, poverty or death - or even possible extinction - can't be the full quid. There is something wrong in their head. 




____________________________________________________
I'm on a high fibre diet. 

 

High fibre diet


4738 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 876

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1451364 16-Dec-2015 10:18
3 people support this post
Send private message

joker97: I think there are a few separate issues that some professional protesters lump together and say that CO2 is killing the earth. In reality they are very distinct entities

1. Non degradable rubbish. The more of this crap that is generated, the larger your dumping ground needs to be. And it never degrades! IMHO = bad

2. Fossil fuel and polution. You just need to look at urban China. Complete loss of night-day. Smog everywhere. Surely if we keep burning crap we will all soon live in a fog of smog. IMHO = bad

3. CO2 and climate change. There are contrasting arguments about whether one causes the other or are actually independant beasts. I have no idea. These guys are pretty certain though.


There is no doubt that human activity is affecting the climate by altering its composition. The natural (non-human) annual CO2 cycle can't account for the rising CO2 levels....and the consequent affect on global average temperature. Variations in output from the Sun can't account for it either.

The deniers are out of runway. 

In relative terms, the atmosphere of the planet if thinner than the skin on an apple is to the apple. Of course hundreds of millions and now billions of people actively burning stuff can have an effect across a few centuries. We are.  The only people who doubt this are people who haven't done their homework and making stuff up is just easier.




____________________________________________________
I'm on a high fibre diet. 

 

High fibre diet


 
 
 
 


3135 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1167


  Reply # 1451381 16-Dec-2015 10:47
Send private message

Poor old King Cnut.  So mis-understood ...


MikeB4: ....any actions then will be akin to King Cnut




Mike

Onward
11346 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 5059

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1451382 16-Dec-2015 10:49
Send private message

MikeAqua: Poor old King Cnut.  So mis-understood ...


MikeB4: ....any actions then will be akin to King Cnut


He was swept by a tide of change




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


17480 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2118

Trusted

  Reply # 1451383 16-Dec-2015 10:50
Send private message

UHD:
joker97: I think there are a few separate issues that some professional protesters lump together and say that CO2 is killing the earth. In reality they are very distinct entities

1. Non degradable rubbish. The more of this crap that is generated, the larger your dumping ground needs to be. And it never degrades! IMHO = bad

2. Fossil fuel and polution. You just need to look at urban China. Complete loss of night-day. Smog everywhere. Surely if we keep burning crap we will all soon live in a fog of smog. IMHO = bad

3. CO2 and climate change. There are contrasting arguments about whether one causes the other or are actually independant beasts. I have no idea. These guys are pretty certain though.


1. Yes. Yes it does degrade.

2. The difference between China and the rest of the western world is nearly a billion people and some semblance of emissions standards.




1. Have you visited the local rubbish dump?

2. Have you Checked out christchurch air quality in winter? Or if it's easier go to London.

Onward
11346 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 5059

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1451386 16-Dec-2015 10:55
Send private message

joker97:
UHD:
joker97: I think there are a few separate issues that some professional protesters lump together and say that CO2 is killing the earth. In reality they are very distinct entities

1. Non degradable rubbish. The more of this crap that is generated, the larger your dumping ground needs to be. And it never degrades! IMHO = bad

2. Fossil fuel and polution. You just need to look at urban China. Complete loss of night-day. Smog everywhere. Surely if we keep burning crap we will all soon live in a fog of smog. IMHO = bad

3. CO2 and climate change. There are contrasting arguments about whether one causes the other or are actually independant beasts. I have no idea. These guys are pretty certain though.


1. Yes. Yes it does degrade.

2. The difference between China and the rest of the western world is nearly a billion people and some semblance of emissions standards.




1. Have you visited the local rubbish dump?

2. Have you Checked out christchurch air quality in winter? Or if it's easier go to London.


There is more plastic in the oceans.

Christchurch is unique in NZ as its one of a few places that has a thermal inversion issue. This exacerbates pollution.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


1270 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 311


  Reply # 1451387 16-Dec-2015 10:56
Send private message

I think if you boil all of this down to just the basics...
Its common sense to look after our environment, surely we can all agree on that?

How far we go in expending 'resources' to do this is the hard part.

10033 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1584

Trusted

  Reply # 1451388 16-Dec-2015 10:59
Send private message

MikeB4: The Earth has not yet reached a tipping point, but that is not far off and the window of opportunity is closing fast. Once past the tipping point then we are going to be along for the ride and any actions then will be akin to King Cnut


Tipping point. The polar caps reflect a lot of light. As they reduce, more sunlight gets in and melts more. When the ice gets too low, its of low value for reflecting away excess sunlight.  Waters are warmer, this reduces the circulation rate from polar to tropical regions via the main currents. One day the currents will stop, and the water will lose oxygen (as it does when it's warmer as well) and become stagnant. I recall that if we fixed our excess non natural pollution, it will take 50 years to stabilise. If too much reflective ice has gone, winters may be not cool enough to create more winter ice

Its not about the greens, money, Obama, etc its about science. We live in a huge tank, and that tank can only go so far to recover from non natural anomalies



2577 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 372


  Reply # 1451390 16-Dec-2015 11:01
Send private message

Linuxluver:  A trillion / year is nothing compared to dead seas, 50m+ of sea level rise in 200 years and a risk that the atmosphere could go anoxic.

People who want to save a few dollars today and condemn their great grandchildren to war, disease, poverty or death - or even possible extinction - can't be the full quid. There is something wrong in their head. 


50 metre sea level rise.  Really? Where does all this water come from. Don't tell me it's from ice flows. Ice displaces the equivalent amount of water by weight that it's floating in plus ice takes up more space than water.

I don't think anyone is saying don't spend money, we just need to spend it in the right areas. The costs imposed by agreements like the one in Paris are way out of balance with any benefits.  There are better ways to do this.




Sony Xperia X Running Sailfish
Jolla C
Nokia N1
Dell Inspiron 14z i5


Onward
11346 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 5059

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1451396 16-Dec-2015 11:02
Send private message

tdgeek:
MikeB4: The Earth has not yet reached a tipping point, but that is not far off and the window of opportunity is closing fast. Once past the tipping point then we are going to be along for the ride and any actions then will be akin to King Cnut


Tipping point. The polar caps reflect a lot of light. As they reduce, more sunlight gets in and melts more. When the ice gets too low, its of low value for reflecting away excess sunlight.  Waters are warmer, this reduces the circulation rate from polar to tropical regions via the main currents. One day the currents will stop, and the water will lose oxygen (as it does when it's warmer as well) and become stagnant. I recall that if we fixed our excess non natural pollution, it will take 50 years to stabilise. If too much reflective ice has gone, winters may be not cool enough to create more winter ice

Its not about the greens, money, Obama, etc its about science. We live in a huge tank, and that tank can only go so far to recover from non natural anomalies


Our food chain starts with the oceans. The oceans are becoming increasingly hostile to life due to warming and acidity levels. The outcome of that makes one shiver.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


10033 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1584

Trusted

  Reply # 1451397 16-Dec-2015 11:03
Send private message

MikeB4:
MikeAqua: Poor old King Cnut.  So mis-understood ...


MikeB4: ....any actions then will be akin to King Cnut


He was swept by a tide of change


Almost half of us live near a coast, globally, so you are in fact almost half right, literally

Onward
11346 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 5059

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1451399 16-Dec-2015 11:06
Send private message

Technofreak:
Linuxluver:  A trillion / year is nothing compared to dead seas, 50m+ of sea level rise in 200 years and a risk that the atmosphere could go anoxic.

People who want to save a few dollars today and condemn their great grandchildren to war, disease, poverty or death - or even possible extinction - can't be the full quid. There is something wrong in their head. 


50 metre sea level rise.  Really? Where does all this water come from. Don't tell me it's from ice flows. Ice displaces the equivalent amount of water by weight that it's floating in plus ice takes up more space than water.

I don't think anyone is saying don't spend money, we just need to spend it in the right areas. The costs imposed by agreements like the one in Paris are way out of balance with any benefits.  There are better ways to do this.


I think 50 meters is a bit much but should the Antarctic terra ice cap, the Tundra in the Arctic circle melt  the oceans will rise as is ice is not displacing at present. However the affect on oceans is more than just level rise.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


10033 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1584

Trusted

  Reply # 1451401 16-Dec-2015 11:08
Send private message

Dairyxox: I think if you boil all of this down to just the basics...
Its common sense to look after our environment, surely we can all agree on that?

How far we go in expending 'resources' to do this is the hard part.
33

Agree. To reduce emissions by 20% actually means continue emissions at 80%

We will be on Mars inside 15 years, surely we can get cracking and outfit homes with as much green energy as is possible, get as many true electric cars
on the road as possible. Geez, we generate 80% of our electricity by hydro, we will aim for 90. WTF? Is it that hard to go for 100? Maybe its too hard.....

Edit" typos

SJB

1042 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 222

Trusted

  Reply # 1451408 16-Dec-2015 11:15
Send private message

We can virtually guarantee the survival of our species if we get off this rock and colonise the solar system and then other star systems.

I know it's extremely difficult but if we don't achieve it I think we've had it. Just look at the state the world is in today and imagine it with say 50% more humans.

Unfortunately we are very much 'live for today', much like every other living thing on the planet, so I don't hold out much hope.

10033 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1584

Trusted

  Reply # 1451428 16-Dec-2015 11:27
One person supports this post
Send private message

SJB: We can virtually guarantee the survival of our species if we get off this rock and colonise the solar system and then other star systems.

I know it's extremely difficult but if we don't achieve it I think we've had it. Just look at the state the world is in today and imagine it with say 50% more humans.

Unfortunately we are very much 'live for today', much like every other living thing on the planet, so I don't hold out much hope.


Its easier to renovate than it is to create. We are here, it works, we should fix what we broke, rather than trek to Mars and start over. Thats a 200 year project in itself

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Phone prices rising as users move upmarket
Posted 24-Nov-2017 17:16


Talking net neutrality on RNZ Nine-to-Noon
Posted 24-Nov-2017 12:11


Air New Zealand experiments with blockchain technology
Posted 23-Nov-2017 15:39


Symantec selects Amazon Web Services to deliver cloud security
Posted 23-Nov-2017 10:40


New Zealand Ministry of Education chooses Unisys for cloud-based education resourcing management system
Posted 22-Nov-2017 22:00


Business analytics software powers profits for NZ wine producers
Posted 22-Nov-2017 21:52


Pyrios strikes up alliance with Microsoft integrator UC Logiq
Posted 22-Nov-2017 21:51


The New Zealand IT services ecosystem - it's all digital down here
Posted 22-Nov-2017 21:49


Volvo to supply tens of thousands of autonomous drive compatible cars to Uber
Posted 22-Nov-2017 21:46


From small to medium and beyond: Navigating the ERP battlefield
Posted 21-Nov-2017 21:12


Business owners: ERP software selection starts (and finishes) with you
Posted 21-Nov-2017 21:11


Why I'm not an early adopter
Posted 21-Nov-2017 10:39


Netatmo launches smart home products in New Zealand
Posted 20-Nov-2017 20:06


Huawei Mate 10: Punchy, long battery life, artificial intelligence
Posted 20-Nov-2017 16:30


Propel launch Disney Star Wars Laser Battle Drones
Posted 19-Nov-2017 21:26



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.