Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


Filter this topic showing only the reply marked as answer View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | ... | 89 | 90 | 91 | 92 | 93 | 94 | 95 | 96 | 97 | 98 | 99 | 100 | 101 | 102 | 103 | 104 | 105 | 106 | 107 | 108 | 109 | ... | 574
Lock him up!
10962 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 1628455 13-Sep-2016 11:19
Send private message quote this post

MikeB4:

 

Rikkitic:

 

I'm a strong believer in ethnic diversity but people serving the general public should be competent in the main language. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I disagree strongly,

 

 

Seriously? How can you maintain that? Surely people in a job that involves communicating with the public should be expected to speak the dominant language of the country they are in. Why should customers have to struggle to get their point across, especially in the case cited here.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


14459 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 1628468 13-Sep-2016 11:37
Send private message quote this post

Rikkitic:

 

 

 

Seriously? How can you maintain that? Surely people in a job that involves communicating with the public should be expected to speak the dominant language of the country they are in. Why should customers have to struggle to get their point across, especially in the case cited here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

So a new comer to New Zealand is not allowed to work or start a business until they can speak English? if one of our tangata whenua was not fluid in English they cannot work?

 

surely you can see that is racism.

 

 

 

What about a deaf person who cannot understand except for sign, they cannot work?





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


 
 
 
 


13576 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 1628493 13-Sep-2016 12:17
Send private message quote this post

MikeB4:

 

Rikkitic:

 

 

 

Seriously? How can you maintain that? Surely people in a job that involves communicating with the public should be expected to speak the dominant language of the country they are in. Why should customers have to struggle to get their point across, especially in the case cited here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

So a new comer to New Zealand is not allowed to work or start a business until they can speak English? if one of our tangata whenua was not fluid in English they cannot work?

 

surely you can see that is racism.

 

 

 

What about a deaf person who cannot understand except for sign, they cannot work?

 

 

 

 

It is hardly racism. There is no discrimination on the grounds of race, merely on the inability to speak a language anyone else understands.






14459 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 1628496 13-Sep-2016 12:19
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

Geektastic:

 

 

 

 

 

It is hardly racism. There is no discrimination on the grounds of race, merely on the inability to speak a language anyone else understands.

 

 

 

 

um what now?





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


2568 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1628524 13-Sep-2016 13:19
Send private message quote this post

MikeB4:

 

Rikkitic:

 

 

 

Seriously? How can you maintain that? Surely people in a job that involves communicating with the public should be expected to speak the dominant language of the country they are in. Why should customers have to struggle to get their point across, especially in the case cited here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

So a new comer to New Zealand is not allowed to work or start a business until they can speak English? if one of our tangata whenua was not fluid in English they cannot work?

 

surely you can see that is racism.

 

 

 

What about a deaf person who cannot understand except for sign, they cannot work?

 

 

Can that deaf person work in a call center to answer YOUR call? No. nor can someone who doesn't speak your language.

 

 

 

In a "non racial" way this could be restated: "could my wife who knows how to use Windows and MS Office really well be hired to code the next program/game you use even though she doesn't actually 'speak' [insert relevant programming langue]?


14459 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 1628527 13-Sep-2016 13:30
Send private message quote this post

PhantomNVD:

 

MikeB4:

 

Rikkitic:

 

 

 

Seriously? How can you maintain that? Surely people in a job that involves communicating with the public should be expected to speak the dominant language of the country they are in. Why should customers have to struggle to get their point across, especially in the case cited here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

So a new comer to New Zealand is not allowed to work or start a business until they can speak English? if one of our tangata whenua was not fluid in English they cannot work?

 

surely you can see that is racism.

 

 

 

What about a deaf person who cannot understand except for sign, they cannot work?

 

 

Can that deaf person work in a call center to answer YOUR call? No. nor can someone who doesn't speak your language.

 

 

 

In a "non racial" way this could be restated: "could my wife who knows how to use Windows and MS Office really well be hired to code the next program/game you use even though she doesn't actually 'speak' [insert relevant programming langue]?

 

 

 

 

Actually they can





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


Lock him up!
10962 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 1628531 13-Sep-2016 13:39
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

Sorry, I do not consider this racism. I truly don't. As far as I know, women in this country are not allowed to play professional male rugby. Male dancers do not find employment as ballerinas. Little people (as in someone suffering from dwarfism) will probably will not make it as Tall Blacks. And so on and so on. In all these cases, people are excluded not because of their race or sex, but because they cannot perform the job that is required. Being small of stature or having a female physique says nothing about your character or intelligence, just your capacity to carry out a specific function. For that reason, excluding such people in these cases is not considered discriminatory. I think it is misleading to suggest someone would be prevented from finding a job because they are deaf or do not speak the local language. Rather, there is a narrow range of specific jobs they should not do because their condition would be a liability for carrying out the work satisfactorily. A deaf person probably should not seek employment as an emergency telephone operator. And someone who doesn't speak the language is probably better suited to working in the kitchen than waiting on tables. There is nothing racist about this.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


 
 
 
 


14459 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 1628536 13-Sep-2016 13:48
Send private message quote this post

Rikkitic:

 

Sorry, I do not consider this racism. I truly don't. As far as I know, women in this country are not allowed to play professional male rugby. Male dancers do not find employment as ballerinas. Little people (as in someone suffering from dwarfism) will probably will not make it as Tall Blacks. And so on and so on. In all these cases, people are excluded not because of their race or sex, but because they cannot perform the job that is required. Being small of stature or having a female physique says nothing about your character or intelligence, just your capacity to carry out a specific function. For that reason, excluding such people in these cases is not considered discriminatory. I think it is misleading to suggest someone would be prevented from finding a job because they are deaf or do not speak the local language. Rather, there is a narrow range of specific jobs they should not do because their condition would be a liability for carrying out the work satisfactorily. A deaf person probably should not seek employment as an emergency telephone operator. And someone who doesn't speak the language is probably better suited to working in the kitchen than waiting on tables. There is nothing racist about this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Are you aware of The NZ Bill of rights , the UN Declaration etc etc etc





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


Lock him up!
10962 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 1628544 13-Sep-2016 13:55
2 people support this post
Send private message quote this post

And how do those apply in this case? I'm sure if I declined to hire a deaf person to answer my phones I would not be prosecuted for it. There is also such a thing as common sense.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


14459 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 1628547 13-Sep-2016 13:59
Send private message quote this post

Rikkitic:

 

And how do those apply in this case? I'm sure if I declined to hire a deaf person to answer my phones I would not be prosecuted for it. There is also such a thing as common sense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is nothing preventing it except attitudes. Attitudes are the biggest barriers to equality.





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


5390 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1628575 13-Sep-2016 14:04
2 people support this post
Send private message quote this post

Language and ethnicity are not inextricably linked.  People of any given ethnicity can learn several languages. I learn a few local phrases (with mixed reception) whenever I travel overseas.  I thought a certain standard of English is required to move here on a working visa?

 

Legally it's acceptable to advertise for choose employees capable of using any language effectively provided it is actually required for the role.

 

There is no reason why a person who doesn't understand English can't work in a restaurant, just not taking orders.

 

But surely its reasonable for a person working as wait staff to learn enough English to do their job.

 

There are several considerations: -

 

  • Risks associated with serious food allergies (no peanuts please),
  • The unpleasant effects of less serious allergies and other food intolerances,
  • The ability to read food hygiene instructions,
  • Finally, going out for a meal is supposed to be enjoyable, it shouldn't be difficult to order appropriate food.




Mike

Lock him up!
10962 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  # 1628595 13-Sep-2016 14:27
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

I don't get the direction this is going. It is perfectly reasonable to expect and demand that a potential employee has the skills and the capability to do the job for which that person is being hired. If I need someone to work with the public, of course I am going to expect reasonable language skills. Why should I hire someone who doesn't understand English?  That doesn't even make sense. It is like hiring Manuel in Fawlty Towers.

 

To return to the extreme example of a deaf person, we happen to have a very capable Member of Parliament who is deaf, though she did have to shame them into providing the extra facilities she required. If I needed someone to answer my phones, and a prospective employee who was deaf had the technology to enable them to carry out the function, there would be no reason not to hire that person, but if I had to hire a second person to translate for the first one, it also wouldn't make sense. It is not discrimination to refuse employment to someone if that person is simply not capable of doing what the job requires. 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


8966 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1628598 13-Sep-2016 14:35
Send private message quote this post

Rikkitic:

 

 It is like hiring Manuel in Fawlty Towers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Precisely, perhaps.  Hiring a German who couldn't speak Spanish to play Manuel proves a point for someone here, I'm just not sure who though...


14459 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 1628601 13-Sep-2016 14:38
Send private message quote this post

back to the original question here

 

 

 

Attitudes





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


1472 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1628602 13-Sep-2016 14:39
Send private message quote this post

Fred99:

 

Rikkitic:

 

 It is like hiring Manuel in Fawlty Towers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Precisely, perhaps.  Hiring a German who couldn't speak Spanish to play Manuel proves a point for someone here, I'm just not sure who though...

 

 

As long as you don't mention the war. (BTW Andrew Sachs is English)


1 | ... | 89 | 90 | 91 | 92 | 93 | 94 | 95 | 96 | 97 | 98 | 99 | 100 | 101 | 102 | 103 | 104 | 105 | 106 | 107 | 108 | 109 | ... | 574
Filter this topic showing only the reply marked as answer View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



Twitter and LinkedIn »



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Intel introduces cryogenic control chip to enable quantum computers
Posted 10-Dec-2019 21:32


Vodafone 5G service live in four cities
Posted 10-Dec-2019 08:30


Samsung Galaxy Fold now available in New Zealand
Posted 6-Dec-2019 00:01


NZ company oDocs awarded US$ 100,000 Dubai World Expo grant
Posted 5-Dec-2019 16:00


New Zealand Rugby Selects AWS-Powered Analytics for Deeper Game Insights
Posted 5-Dec-2019 11:33


IMAGR and Farro bring checkout-less supermarket shopping to New Zealand
Posted 5-Dec-2019 09:07


Wellington Airport becomes first 5G connected airport in the country
Posted 3-Dec-2019 08:42


MetService secures Al Jazeera as a new weather client
Posted 28-Nov-2019 09:40


NZ a top 10 connected nation with stage one of ultra-fast broadband roll-out completed
Posted 24-Nov-2019 14:15


Microsoft Translator understands te reo Māori
Posted 22-Nov-2019 08:46


Chorus to launch Hyperfibre service
Posted 18-Nov-2019 15:00


Microsoft launches first Experience Center worldwide for Asia Pacific in Singapore
Posted 13-Nov-2019 13:08


Disney+ comes to LG Smart TVs
Posted 13-Nov-2019 12:55


Spark launches new wireless broadband "Unplan Metro"
Posted 11-Nov-2019 08:19


Malwarebytes overhauls flagship product with new UI, faster engine and lighter footprint
Posted 6-Nov-2019 11:48



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.