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  Reply # 1641391 27-Sep-2016 17:40
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sen8or:

 

I switched off after about 30 mins, lots of puff and wind coming from both parties, neither of which had any real substance to it (from what I saw). I would say both lost this one, although Hillary lost by less than Trump (his smugness about using the law of the land to go into chapter 11 4 times to build his own nest egg wouldn't have done him any favours).

 

A warm up for sure, rounds 1 - 2 of a boxing match, just feeling each other out without wanting to deliver anything of real substance until it was far enough along not to be able to recover from.

 

 

 

 

 

 

That is pretty much all these types of 'debates' are, and that is using the term kindly. They are made for tv events without substance. NZs ones are often worse. I can see Trump winning the whole thing because people are sick of the current direction of open trade etc. He is also more relatable, and very well known being on TV. You also only need to look at Brexit. So it looks like the end of the TPPA under both options, and possibly tarrifs coming back in as countries protect their own economies, as it looks like Trump wants to tax US companies who have moved overseas, who want to bring their goods back into the US to sell.

 

Trump is also probably more well known than Clinton, and the US have a history of voting for TV and movie stars. Eg Arnie and Reagan. Clinton just comes across as snooty to me, and is not really relatable. She is almost too stage managed and rehearsed. If it was between Obama and Trump, then Trump probably wouldn't have a chance.


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  Reply # 1641421 27-Sep-2016 18:47
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Trump is full of hot air, and he even managed to contradict himself a few times. Gloat over not paying taxes etc.

 

If his mission was to appear presidential, he completely failed. If he wanted to actually say anything specific about his policies, he did an equally bad job.





 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1641428 27-Sep-2016 19:15
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mattwnz:

 

She is almost too stage managed and rehearsed.

 

 

 

 

And Trump can only get better (hopefully) because Clinton has peaked, maybe too early. The only people not to speak so far are the silent majority, they will have the loudest voice in this election.


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  Reply # 1641433 27-Sep-2016 19:21
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jarledb:

 

If his mission was to appear presidential, he completely failed. If he wanted to actually say anything specific about his policies, he did an equally bad job.

 

 

 

 

I seem to remember Ronald Reagan being pretty bad during his time but has gone down as one of America's best and most loved.

 

"No matter what time it is, wake me, even if it's in the middle of a Cabinet meeting." - Ronald Reagan.


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  Reply # 1641438 27-Sep-2016 19:27
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networkn:

SumnerBoy:


Sideface:


Hillary won the debate by a country mile.



+1


Can't believe some people think it was close. He was all over the show, barely answered a question he was asked directly and continuously interrupted Clinton. On the other hand she was calm, measured and to-the-point. She got a bit personal a few times which was probably a little unnecessary but all-in-all it was a landslide from where I was sitting.


Just got to hope like hell the US voters agree!



 


You only think it wasn't close because you don't understand how Americans think, and or vote. That isn't being disrepectful to them or to you, but it's entirely different. You can't apply Kiwi logic to matters.



For sure. I've spent a lot of time there and you can't take them as us.

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  Reply # 1641444 27-Sep-2016 19:37
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cynnicallemon:

jarledb:


If his mission was to appear presidential, he completely failed. If he wanted to actually say anything specific about his policies, he did an equally bad job.



 


I seem to remember Ronald Reagan being pretty bad during his time but has gone down as one of America's best and most loved.



You remember correctly. The main reason for claiming Reagan in recent years is because nobody wanted to claim Bush. They had to go all the way back to the previous republican president and claim that legacy instead. Most loved is just a complete joke. It's a retcon.

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  Reply # 1641447 27-Sep-2016 19:46
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gzt:  <snip>  The main reason for claiming Reagan in recent years is because nobody wanted to claim Bush. They had to go all the way back to the previous republican president and claim that legacy instead. Most loved is just a complete joke. It's a retcon.

 

If Trump is elected, he'll probably make Bush Junior look good. undecided





Sideface




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  Reply # 1641454 27-Sep-2016 20:32
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cynnicallemon:

 

 

 

I seem to remember Ronald Reagan being pretty bad during his time but has gone down as one of America's best and most loved.

 

 

That's coz he single-handedly won the Cold War over them commie bastards, didn't he? Didn't he?


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  Reply # 1641465 27-Sep-2016 20:42
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cynnicallemon:

 

mattwnz:

 

She is almost too stage managed and rehearsed.

 

 

 

 

And Trump can only get better (hopefully) because Clinton has peaked, maybe too early. The only people not to speak so far are the silent majority, they will have the loudest voice in this election.

 

 

 

 

Not sure Clinton has ever peaked. She is boring and predictable. But is a steady hand, and I think the US will be in safe hands. But she is very conservative and doesn't relate to the younger generation.


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  Reply # 1641466 27-Sep-2016 20:46
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DarthKermit:

 

cynnicallemon:

 

I seem to remember Ronald Reagan being pretty bad during his time but has gone down as one of America's best and most loved.

 

 

That's coz he single-handedly won the Cold War over them commie bastards, didn't he? Didn't he?

 

 

 

 

Not single handed, he had help from Arnie.


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  Reply # 1641485 27-Sep-2016 21:42
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Those of you that say he was good certainly missed when she mentioned he didn't pay taxes, to which he replied "That makes me smart"... Nope, that makes him a crook. Or him talking about Obama's birth certificate when the topic was racial discrimination.





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  Reply # 1641490 27-Sep-2016 21:50
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cynnicallemon:

 

jarledb:

 

If his mission was to appear presidential, he completely failed. If he wanted to actually say anything specific about his policies, he did an equally bad job.

 

 

 

 

I seem to remember Ronald Reagan being pretty bad during his time but has gone down as one of America's best and most loved.

 

"No matter what time it is, wake me, even if it's in the middle of a Cabinet meeting." - Ronald Reagan.

 

 

I've probably posted this before - perhaps even in this thread - but it's worthy of reposting IMO:

 


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  Reply # 1641491 27-Sep-2016 22:00
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freitasm:

 

Those of you that say he was good certainly missed when she mentioned he didn't pay taxes, to which he replied "That makes me smart"... Nope, that makes him a crook. Or him talking about Obama's birth certificate when the topic was racial discrimination.

 

 

 

 

Not necessarily. If he does not pay taxes because he is bright enough to structure his business affairs in such a way that within the law he pays $x rather than $x+y, he is smart. I suspect that this is what he meant.

 

If he just admitted to tax evasion on national television, not so much.






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  Reply # 1641495 27-Sep-2016 22:07
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Some things which came across loud and clear today relevant to NZ:

 

Obama would be very unwise to move to push through ratifying TPP before the election, or it will sabotage Clinton.  I suspect TPP is dead.

 

Clinton was very strongly pushing the idea of abolishing student debt - not "reducing the size of it - but eliminating it. That's quite "left wing" - even by NZ standards.

 

Clinton was also very strongly condemning the concept of "trickle-down" economics, repeatedly stating that it hasn't worked.  That's also left wing by NZ standards.  Many here still believe it works.

 

If this seems bad for "business" - laissez-faire free-market "invisible hand" economics, then Trump isn't an alternative.  He was talking strongly about imposing tariffs, "punishing" US trade partners, starting global trade wars.  Much worse - and extremely worrying for the future of a nation as dependent on international trade as NZ is.


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  Reply # 1641497 27-Sep-2016 22:17
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Geektastic:

 

freitasm:

 

Those of you that say he was good certainly missed when she mentioned he didn't pay taxes, to which he replied "That makes me smart"... Nope, that makes him a crook. Or him talking about Obama's birth certificate when the topic was racial discrimination.

 

 

 

 

Not necessarily. If he does not pay taxes because he is bright enough to structure his business affairs in such a way that within the law he pays $x rather than $x+y, he is smart. I suspect that this is what he meant.

 

If he just admitted to tax evasion on national television, not so much.

 

 

 

 

He's about as coherent as someone speaking in tongues after they just got bit by a rattlesnake.

 

Shouldn't need to be "suspecting what he meant".  He's a serious contender for POTUS - not some lunatic speaking in tongues - isn't he?


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