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  Reply # 1641498 27-Sep-2016 22:27
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SumnerBoy:

 

Sideface:

 

Hillary won the debate by a country mile.

 

 

+1

 

Can't believe some people think it was close. He was all over the show, barely answered a question he was asked directly and continuously interrupted Clinton. On the other hand she was calm, measured and to-the-point. She got a bit personal a few times which was probably a little unnecessary but all-in-all it was a landslide from where I was sitting.

 

Just got to hope like hell the US voters agree!

 

 

US voters probably have not changed their mindset. Probably celebrated Trump's excellent showcase. I expect the next straw poll to show little difference.


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  Reply # 1641501 27-Sep-2016 22:34
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Fred99:

 

<snip>

 

He's about as coherent as someone speaking in tongues after they just got bit by a rattlesnake.

 

<snip>

 

 

Trump uses "braggadocious", proving that he's expanded his vocabulary bigly.





Sideface


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1641524 28-Sep-2016 00:40
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Charles Krauthammer rated the debate as just about a draw.     Trump has been prepping but not with practice debates.     He didn't do brilliantly but he had an answer for everything Hillary Clinton threw at him.    I'd say that Donald won the first twenty minutes or so and Hillary did better from then on.     Let's see if Julian Assange really does have a whole lot of damning emails to come out in October.       And here's one other thing, if you look at the poll trends graphic on five thirty eight you'll see that ever since June Clinton has been on a slight downward trend while Trump has been on a slight upward trend.   ( I am disregarding the bump that both candidates got from their conventions.)


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  Reply # 1641538 28-Sep-2016 07:55
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The Morning After the Debate, Donald Trump Goes on the Attack

Trump is now arguing with the referee. ...  wink





Sideface


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  Reply # 1641549 28-Sep-2016 08:59
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Fred99:

 

Some things which came across loud and clear today relevant to NZ:

 

Obama would be very unwise to move to push through ratifying TPP before the election, or it will sabotage Clinton.  I suspect TPP is dead.

 

Clinton was very strongly pushing the idea of abolishing student debt - not "reducing the size of it - but eliminating it. That's quite "left wing" - even by NZ standards.

 

Clinton was also very strongly condemning the concept of "trickle-down" economics, repeatedly stating that it hasn't worked.  That's also left wing by NZ standards.  Many here still believe it works.

 

If this seems bad for "business" - laissez-faire free-market "invisible hand" economics, then Trump isn't an alternative.  He was talking strongly about imposing tariffs, "punishing" US trade partners, starting global trade wars.  Much worse - and extremely worrying for the future of a nation as dependent on international trade as NZ is.

 

 

Am I missing something? You feel TPPA is dead, that is a free trade agreement. Then you mention tariffs and trade wars. If there is no free trade agreement, you would expect tariffs, protectionism, etc.


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  Reply # 1641551 28-Sep-2016 09:00
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Sideface:

 

Fred99:

 

<snip>

 

He's about as coherent as someone speaking in tongues after they just got bit by a rattlesnake.

 

<snip>

 

 

Trump uses "braggadocious", proving that he's expanded his vocabulary bigly.

 

 

?? Bigly is not a word.  try largerly..  :-)


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  Reply # 1641552 28-Sep-2016 09:16
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  Reply # 1641553 28-Sep-2016 09:17
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tdgeek:

 

Fred99:

 

Some things which came across loud and clear today relevant to NZ:

 

Obama would be very unwise to move to push through ratifying TPP before the election, or it will sabotage Clinton.  I suspect TPP is dead.

 

Clinton was very strongly pushing the idea of abolishing student debt - not "reducing the size of it - but eliminating it. That's quite "left wing" - even by NZ standards.

 

Clinton was also very strongly condemning the concept of "trickle-down" economics, repeatedly stating that it hasn't worked.  That's also left wing by NZ standards.  Many here still believe it works.

 

If this seems bad for "business" - laissez-faire free-market "invisible hand" economics, then Trump isn't an alternative.  He was talking strongly about imposing tariffs, "punishing" US trade partners, starting global trade wars.  Much worse - and extremely worrying for the future of a nation as dependent on international trade as NZ is.

 

 

Am I missing something? You feel TPPA is dead, that is a free trade agreement. Then you mention tariffs and trade wars. If there is no free trade agreement, you would expect tariffs, protectionism, etc.

 

 

The TPPA *IS* dead. Neither of the primary candidates will pass it in it's current state. 


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  Reply # 1641554 28-Sep-2016 09:22
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freitasm:

 

Those of you that say he was good certainly missed when she mentioned he didn't pay taxes, to which he replied "That makes me smart"... Nope, that makes him a crook. Or him talking about Obama's birth certificate when the topic was racial discrimination.

 

 

 

 

Yeah Clinton owned him on that point. The point that stuck out "no money for troops". She needs to ride this all the way to the Whitehouse.

 

Having said that, if he is LEGALLY used methods in law to avoid paying taxes, then you can't penalize him for that, you can only criticise the law-makers. It's pretty unlikely that the people DT pays to sort his taxes are making these decisions without much input from him. He may say to them "go and find legal ways to pay less tax" but that doesn't really make him a crook. Bottom line is.. Do you pay more tax than YOU need to ? I meet my obligations under law, and I do that pretty happily, but I claim what I am entitled to under tax law.

 

What is interesting, and I posted it just above in that NZ Herald article, is that he said he is going to lower taxes, and technically, for the the poorest people, that isn't true. 

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1641563 28-Sep-2016 09:26
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networkn:

 

tdgeek:

 

Fred99:

 

Some things which came across loud and clear today relevant to NZ:

 

Obama would be very unwise to move to push through ratifying TPP before the election, or it will sabotage Clinton.  I suspect TPP is dead.

 

Clinton was very strongly pushing the idea of abolishing student debt - not "reducing the size of it - but eliminating it. That's quite "left wing" - even by NZ standards.

 

Clinton was also very strongly condemning the concept of "trickle-down" economics, repeatedly stating that it hasn't worked.  That's also left wing by NZ standards.  Many here still believe it works.

 

If this seems bad for "business" - laissez-faire free-market "invisible hand" economics, then Trump isn't an alternative.  He was talking strongly about imposing tariffs, "punishing" US trade partners, starting global trade wars.  Much worse - and extremely worrying for the future of a nation as dependent on international trade as NZ is.

 

 

Am I missing something? You feel TPPA is dead, that is a free trade agreement. Then you mention tariffs and trade wars. If there is no free trade agreement, you would expect tariffs, protectionism, etc.

 

 

The TPPA *IS* dead. Neither of the primary candidates will pass it in it's current state. 

 

 

Whether its dead or not wasnt my point. Fred mentioned concern over trade wars, tariffs etc, but if there is no free trade agreement, trade wars, tariffs  and protectionsm are normal and expected. So if Trump goes down that track, no problem, he has every right, and if that serves his country better, then no problem


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  Reply # 1641564 28-Sep-2016 09:30
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tdgeek:

 

Fred99:

 

Some things which came across loud and clear today relevant to NZ:

 

Obama would be very unwise to move to push through ratifying TPP before the election, or it will sabotage Clinton.  I suspect TPP is dead.

 

Clinton was very strongly pushing the idea of abolishing student debt - not "reducing the size of it - but eliminating it. That's quite "left wing" - even by NZ standards.

 

Clinton was also very strongly condemning the concept of "trickle-down" economics, repeatedly stating that it hasn't worked.  That's also left wing by NZ standards.  Many here still believe it works.

 

If this seems bad for "business" - laissez-faire free-market "invisible hand" economics, then Trump isn't an alternative.  He was talking strongly about imposing tariffs, "punishing" US trade partners, starting global trade wars.  Much worse - and extremely worrying for the future of a nation as dependent on international trade as NZ is.

 

 

Am I missing something? You feel TPPA is dead, that is a free trade agreement. Then you mention tariffs and trade wars. If there is no free trade agreement, you would expect tariffs, protectionism, etc.

 

 

 

 

I suspect TTP is dead because it's strongly opposed by Trump, and despite Clinton's previous position (until about 12 months ago) favouring FTAs, she's now also opposed to TPP (Trump trying to capitalise on her "flip-flop" - "stealing his policy").  So if it isn't ratified before the new president is sworn in, it's dead.  If it is ratified by lame duck Obama, then it's going to be a serious long-term liability for the Democrats if they win and the lunatic fringe continue to dominate the GOP - which seems probable IMO.  It (TPP) and an apparent betrayal by the democrat establishment will be blamed for any and everything wrong with the US economy for the foreseeable future.  Forget facts - that was populist politics. I presume you heard Trump repeatedly attacking NAFTA in the debate last night.
Trade-wars are a related issue - very dangerous they are too, economically and politically.  Trump will initiate trade-wars - and from what he was threatening, pull back from existing trade agreements and treaties, multilateral and WTO agreements.


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  Reply # 1641572 28-Sep-2016 09:45
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tdgeek:

 

So if Trump goes down that track, no problem, he has every right, and if that serves his country better, then no problem

 

 

 

 

Yup.  It'll be great for middle/working class citizens to have the price hiked for basically everything they buy because of Trump's punitive tariffs, then lose their jobs because the rest of the world either applied punitive tariffs in retaliation, or just couldn't afford to buy made in USA products any more. 


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  Reply # 1641573 28-Sep-2016 09:46
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Clinton will pass it. Thirty seconds after taking office she will 'learn new information' or some such to justify going back on her promise. Trump may or may not. Personally, I think we give away a lot to get very little with the TPPA, so I wouldn't cry if it died. But since our government is already implementing the law changes that will be required for it, and has already stated they won't be reversed if the TPPA doesn't go ahead, we lose either way.





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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


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  Reply # 1641574 28-Sep-2016 09:49
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Trump just rambled on and on, without really answering the questions.

 

Clinton had too much of a forced smile early on, which made her seem a little smug and superior - but she came across more natural and less rehearsed as it went on.

 

In my mind Clinton easily won, but I feel like she could have done better.


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  Reply # 1641577 28-Sep-2016 09:57
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Fred99:

 

tdgeek:

 

So if Trump goes down that track, no problem, he has every right, and if that serves his country better, then no problem

 

 

 

 

Yup.  It'll be great for middle/working class citizens to have the price hiked for basically everything they buy because of Trump's punitive tariffs, then lose their jobs because the rest of the world either applied punitive tariffs in retaliation, or just couldn't afford to buy made in USA products any more. 

 

 

I have no issue with trade wars, although that term is a bit over the top IMO. However, if he intends to break existing agreements, thats not on.

 

Should he be over exuberant with tariffs, then yes, the World at large will break agreements and increase tariffs to the US, thus they would need to make more and more goods to avoid that, but that will still cost them more as they cant match other countries lower costs. 


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