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  Reply # 1641843 28-Sep-2016 13:52
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SaltyNZ:

 

frankv:

 

 

 

In your own words: "Neither of the primary candidates will pass it in it's current state. "

 

That leaves it open for "new information" to emerge, for the terms of TPPA to be adjusted, or for TPPAv2 to be unveiled. Whatever follows TPPA will be built on it, not from scratch.

 

 

 

 

The TPPA isn't "adjustable". It's a treaty: it has been agreed and signed already. If they US wants to change it, it's back to the negotiating table for everyone. Nobody, not even the US, can unilaterally modify it as they see fit.

 

I mean, sure, it is the US we are talking about here - they can do whatever the hell they want - but if they do, then nobody else has to hold up their end of the treaty towards the US either.

 

 

Yeah, I see all that. But if the US doesn't ratify, then the TPPA dies. Those that have invested in it may agree to changes being made to it. But you can bet than any new treaty will be similar in terms to the TPPA.

 

 


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  Reply # 1641847 28-Sep-2016 13:57
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Fred99:

 

cynnicallemon: 

 

Perhaps one of the reasons why the US is $20B in debt.

 

 

 

 

It's trillion @cynicallemon. (and not at $20 trillion yet).

 

Using the Big Mac Index, $20 billion would give everybody on the planet roughly one free lunch.  $20 trillion would give them breakfast, lunch, and dinner every day for about a year. 

 

On a per capita basis it's only slightly worse than NZ. As a % of GDP, they're less in debt than NZ. 

 

Nigeria, Ethiopia, Haiti etc have very low debt by world standards - so debt level must be a great indicator of how well an economy is doing?

 

 

 

 

 

 

LOL, thanks for pointing that typo out, I did actually mean trillion.

 

FY17 Federal Budget estimate it will be $19.3 trillion by the end of the year - near enough, what's $0.7 trillion between friends?.

 

Debt level is an indicator of how a country lives beyond its means.

 

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

 

http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/newzealand

 

 

 

 

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1641850 28-Sep-2016 14:11
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frankv:

 

SaltyNZ:

 

frankv:

 

 

 

In your own words: "Neither of the primary candidates will pass it in it's current state. "

 

That leaves it open for "new information" to emerge, for the terms of TPPA to be adjusted, or for TPPAv2 to be unveiled. Whatever follows TPPA will be built on it, not from scratch.

 

 

 

 

The TPPA isn't "adjustable". It's a treaty: it has been agreed and signed already. If they US wants to change it, it's back to the negotiating table for everyone. Nobody, not even the US, can unilaterally modify it as they see fit.

 

I mean, sure, it is the US we are talking about here - they can do whatever the hell they want - but if they do, then nobody else has to hold up their end of the treaty towards the US either.

 

 

Yeah, I see all that. But if the US doesn't ratify, then the TPPA dies. Those that have invested in it may agree to changes being made to it. But you can bet than any new treaty will be similar in terms to the TPPA.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd actually wager that if the TPP isn't ratified and a new "but similar" treaty was to be negotiated, then there'd be intense political pressure and lobbying against controversial aspects / details of the TPP which were negotiated in secret, ISDS, IP laws relating to particularly the interests of Big Hollywood and Big Pharma.  If it dies - then it's dead and buried forever - too toxic to bring back to life.

 

Renegotiating it now - but keeping it "much the same" could be compared to having a round of betting on the second hand of cards in a poker game - when everyone knew the cards were the same as the first.

 

 


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  Reply # 1641884 28-Sep-2016 15:15
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Fred99:

 

I'd actually wager that if the TPP isn't ratified and a new "but similar" treaty was to be negotiated, then there'd be intense political pressure and lobbying against controversial aspects / details of the TPP which were negotiated in secret, ISDS, IP laws relating to particularly the interests of Big Hollywood and Big Pharma.  If it dies - then it's dead and buried forever - too toxic to bring back to life.

 

Renegotiating it now - but keeping it "much the same" could be compared to having a round of betting on the second hand of cards in a poker game - when everyone knew the cards were the same as the first.

 

 

 

All true, but the card analogy isn't quite right, I think.

 

Let's say, after a lot of haggling, I've agreed to buy a car off you at $X, and you've agreed to sell it at that price. Then one of us cancels the deal. Subsequently, you advertise your car on TradeMe again. Maybe one or other of us would consider the deal too toxic to redo, but I'd be a bit crazy to offer you (or anyone else) much more than $X, and you would be a bit crazy to accept much less than $X.

 

 




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  Reply # 1642043 28-Sep-2016 19:35
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tdgeek:

 

 

 

Trump uses "braggadocious", proving that he's expanded his vocabulary bigly.

 

 

 

 

Don't misunderestimate the power of the Trump. tongue-out


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  Reply # 1642054 28-Sep-2016 19:56
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DarthKermit:

 

tdgeek:

 

 

 

Trump uses "braggadocious", proving that he's expanded his vocabulary bigly.

 

 

 

 

Don't misunderestimate the power of the Trump. tongue-out

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hope he and trumpalicious wife Melanomia will be trumpulent.


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  Reply # 1642115 28-Sep-2016 21:39
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Awful realisation that Trump isn't anything new - we can breed our own in this hemisphere:

 

"The greatest thing that could happen to the state and nation is when we get rid of all the media ... then we could live in peace and tranquillity and no one would know anything."

 

"Australia is bankrupt. It's even worse than that"

 

(Sir Joh Bjelke-Petersen.  NZ born and raised peanut farmer, prosperous businessman, and long-serving Premier of Queensland)


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  Reply # 1642118 28-Sep-2016 21:43
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Watched the debate tonight. DT was funny. More polite than expected. Reinvented the word tangent for avoiding a topic. Doesnt understand the word detail. She gained some undecided, he gained nothing. 


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  Reply # 1642234 29-Sep-2016 07:18
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Fred99:

 

Awful realisation that Trump isn't anything new - we can breed our own in this hemisphere:

 

"The greatest thing that could happen to the state and nation is when we get rid of all the media ... then we could live in peace and tranquillity and no one would know anything."

 

"Australia is bankrupt. It's even worse than that"

 

(Sir Joh Bjelke-Petersen.  NZ born and raised peanut farmer, prosperous businessman, and long-serving Premier of Queensland)

 

 

.... and corrupt as a politician with absolute power.

 

 


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  Reply # 1642261 29-Sep-2016 08:15
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frankv:

 

Fred99:

 

Awful realisation that Trump isn't anything new - we can breed our own in this hemisphere:

 

"The greatest thing that could happen to the state and nation is when we get rid of all the media ... then we could live in peace and tranquillity and no one would know anything."

 

"Australia is bankrupt. It's even worse than that"

 

(Sir Joh Bjelke-Petersen.  NZ born and raised peanut farmer, prosperous businessman, and long-serving Premier of Queensland)

 

 

.... and corrupt as a politician with absolute power.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gave legendary interviews, and inspired some truly beautiful parodies. Now don't you ... don't you ... don't come the raw prawn don't you come the raw prawn with me...





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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


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  Reply # 1642386 29-Sep-2016 09:31
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Sideface:

 

<snip>

 

Trump uses "braggadocious", proving that he's expanded his vocabulary bigly.

 

 

ADDENDUM:

 

According to the Merriam Webster dictionary website:


Did Trump Say 'Bigly' or 'Big League'?

Both are real words, though 'big league' is rarely used as an adverb.
Lookups for big and bigly spiked on September 26th and 27th. Many people heard 'bigly' when Trump said big league in the debate:
"I'm going to cut taxes big league and you're going to raise taxes big league. End of story."
Trump often uses the phrase big league in a figurative sense; the manner in which he pronounces these words have caused many people to assume that he was using a single word (bigly), rather than two.

 




Trump: 'I Wrote the Art of the Deal. I Say Not in a Braggadocious Way.'

 

Lookups for braggadocio spiked during the debate between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton on September 26th, after Trump used a word that is very similar in nature and spelling.
The word employed by Trump was braggadocious, which is a dialectical word from 19th century America, meaning “arrogant.”
Donald Trump has used braggadocious previously, in earlier debates; the word is not common enough to merit an entry in our dictionary.

It is thought to have come from braggadocio (also not a common word today), which is considerably older.
This term, which currently means “the annoying or exaggerated talk of someone who is trying to sound very proud or brave” began to be used in the beginning of the 17th century, at which point it simply referred to a braggart.

 

 

So now we know - Trump is a big league braggart.

 

Who would have guessed?  smile





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  Reply # 1645993 5-Oct-2016 15:49
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Did anyone bother to follow the veep debate? I watched the beginning, got tired of them talking over each other and wandered off to do something completely unimportant, picked it up again later on my computer. Both seemed pretty evenly matched, neither one exceptional in any way, Kaine would have won on points but he made a bad impression at the beginning by constantly and unnecessarily interrupting Pence and generally coming across as a dick, did much better at the end, not that anyone would have noticed or cared. I don't think this encounter will move any votes.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 1646001 5-Oct-2016 16:09
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I watched it, Mike Pence would be preferable as president to DT lol

Though they reminded me of the Jack Johnson and John Jackson candidates from Futurama :)

Clint

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  Reply # 1646226 5-Oct-2016 22:01

I had planned not to watch the debate but got home earlier than expected & watched the whole thing.    What fascinated me is that Clinton and Trump seem to have picked just the right VP running mates.    Tim Kaine for his lively passion and ability to connect with ordinary people.    Mike Pence for his calm steadiness & 'presidential' style.    I could imagine Pence giving a JFK type speech from the Oval Office in a crisis.    I'd rate the debate as a narrow win for Pence.    Donald Trump has tweeted saying how pleased he was with Pence's debate.

 

Maybe Trump will learn something from that and do some debate prep. before the 9th.

 

I thought the moderator did a good job & was fair.   

 

 


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  Reply # 1647464 7-Oct-2016 19:55
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Hot off the press, Trumps latest Offender 101 has hit the airwaves

 

Quote

 

Speaking at a rally in Reno, Nevada, on Wednesday, the Republican presidential nominee told dying voters that it doesn't matter that they won't be around in two weeks, "don't let the other side win".

 

"I don't care if you just came back from the doctor and he gave you the worst possible prognosis, meaning it's over," Trump said. "Doesn't matter. Hang out till November 8. Get out and vote."


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